Recently I had occasion to pass a bike (that I was quite fond of ) to a new steward. As part of the deal, the buyer agreed to offer me 'first refusal rights' should he decide to sell the frame within 5 years. Now, I realize that this would not hold up in a court of law and is only a 'gentlemen's agreement', it does provide me with a certain peace od mind. I like to think that we are all honorable gentlemen and gentlewomen... (bike was a circa 1970 Cinelli SC) He is not obligated to offer it at the same price - but just to make the offer.
Works for me.
Ken Sanford
Kensington, MD
<classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2007 12:12 PM Subject: Re: [CR]ebay madness
> Although I'm a newbie, I'm somewhat surprised at this posting. A
> lthough the original owner may be disappointed at the seller's violati
> on of a promise to keep the frame, the seller really can't entail th
> e frame, forcing the the buyer to retain it.
> Furthermore, I'm quite pleased when a beautiful bike sells for a goo
> d price. It's a form of justification of the financial end of our ho
> bby.
> As for the actual value of a collectible, it's what the seller was w
> illing to pay. Comparisons with KOF frames and paint restorations are
> really invidious. Furthermore, even here the prices mentioned are,
> in my recent experience, much too low.
> George Hollenberg MD
> (CT, USA)
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Jerome & Elizabeth Moos
>
> Date: Tuesday, March 27, 2007 11:59 am
> Subject: Re: [CR]ebay madness
> To: Peter Brown , classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
> Cc: douguk2007@hotmail.co.uk
>
>> I agree in regard to the price, particularly if the buyer was
>
>> American. Such classic English bikes seem to command higher
>
>> prices in America than UK - "a prophet hath no honour in his own
>
>> country" I suppose. Or perhaps simply the fact that these
>
>> frames are scarcer in America.
>>
>
>> I think the price works out to about $US 700. Perhaps a bit
>
>> above average for a restored frame, I agree. But a KOF frame
>
>> from a leading builder will cost over $2,000 and often entail a
>
>> one to two year wait. And as I recall, Rivendell gave up
>
>> selling even its production Heron frame when they evidently
>
>> couldn't make money at a $1,000 price. So an expertly restor
> ed
>
>> classic frame for $700 seems a bargain in comparison.
>>
>
>> Or, for a different comparison, an expert restoration by a top
>
>> US painter, including correct transfers, will probably cost you
>
>> at least close to $500, and often locating the transfers can be
>
>> very difficult and time-consuming. And if there is chrome
>
>> restoration involved, one can easily spend $700 on restoring a
>
>> frame, as chrome has become very expensive. So from that point
>
>> of view, $700 may be equivalent to paying for restoration of a
>
>> frame that one received for free.
>>
>
>> So, like Peter, I can understand the annoyance at the frame
>
>> being sold, but I agree with him that the price is not at all insa
> ne.
>>
>
>> Regards,
>>
>
>> Jerry Moos
>> Big Spring, TX
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>> Peter Brown wrote:
>> Doug Smith wrote:
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>> I never thought I would see the day when a frame that I once
>
>> owned,
>
>> restored
>> and sold only late last year would go for £365.00 GBP's. I r
> efer
>
>> of
>
>> course
>> of the Claud Butler, Avant Coureur frame no. 91543. Apart from
>
>
>> it being
>
>> a
>> wonderful example of the marque to sell for that money is in my
>
>> opinion
>
>> just
>> plain madness. It appears to be utterly insane for anyone to pay t
> hese
>> prices thus making a complete mockery of collecting and saving
>
>> these
>
>> older
>> frames as a hobby.
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>> There is no sour grapes on my part as some may think but only to fee
> l
>> slightly let down when I understood it would have stayed with
>
>> purchaser
>
>> as
>> part
>
>>
>
>> of their collection. Maybe this could be warning to other
>
>> members when
>> deciding to sell some of their treasured possessions only to be
>
>> exploited by
>> others selling them on auction. Inflated prices seem to be the
>
>> norm by
>
>> some
>> in our hobby and of course not helped by people willing to pay
>
>> the
>
>> price. So
>> it will go on I suppose until the demand will inevitably dry up
>
>> and the
>> goods will no longer be available! Doug Smith North Dorset UK
>>
>
>>
>
>> Whilst I can understand Doug's annoyance that someone should
>
>> sell on a
>
>> frame
>> which he was led to believe was going to form part of a private
>
>> collection,
>> I do not accept that the price realised was madness. The price
>
>> realised
>
>> was
>> totally realistic for a frame of that age and quality, hand
>
>> built by
>> craftsmen, and expertly restored. Compared to the prices some
>
>> collectors
>> are prepared to pay for production line frames of a later
>
>> vintage, the
>> current cost of some new frames which will probably never become a
>> collector's item, and bearing in mind the current cost of
>
>> restoring to
>
>> that
>> standard, that was a very fair price. Good luck to the buyer,
>
>> and I am
>
>> sure
>> you will be able to ride your completed machine with great pride.
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>> Peter Brown, Lincolnshire, England
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>> _______________________
> ________________________
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>> _______________________
> ________________________