Dear List:
The legal details of the situation are murky. It depends on Aunt's title to the bike at the time of the garage sale. If she is/remained the owner of it on that date, she had the ability to transfer legal title at the garage sale, ebay seller bought it in good faith and therefore had legal title to aution it off. It looks as if Aunt "sorta" gave bike to John, so it depends on whether the gift to John was "completed", ie did John exercise ownership and dominion over bike. But the fact Aunt sold the bike indicates she didn't think she had given it to John. (All John had to do was hand Aunt a dollar ("good and valuable consideration" as the contract law books call it) and the deal would have been done with title passing to John.) But if Aunt said something equivocal like "You can take care of the bike for me" or such, then there may not have been a clear transfer of ownership, ebay seller was the legal owner, and more importantly, ebay buyer has a good legal claim to the bike. I see that Aunt and ebay seller agreed to undo deal, but there was no mention of ebay buyer. I hope ebay buyer was consulted before the deal was undone, or there may be a real problem here.
Tom Adams, (can't stop being a lawyer) in Shrewsbury NJ
John Price <emailprice@comcast.net> wrote:
Brian and all,
To make things even more interesting, your friend didn't end up with the
bike, I did and it stayed in the family.
My aunt without notifying any of the family sold it at a garage sale and it
appeared on ebay and though the CR link I saw the bike and long story short,
after freaking out I contacted my aunt who contacted the ebay seller (The
Ebay guy who bought it at her garage sale) and asked for the 'family' Masi
back, as we all told her we would never talk to her again otherwise. He
complied and she refund the money he gave her for it. Since I have a couple
of Masi's (MC # 0806, the newest or latest Carlsbad built frame in Bob's
registry and a 98 Corsa), and I race and collect vintage bikes, (Brian and I
have corresponded in the past) she made me the new keeper of the heirloom.
When visiting her, when I looked at the bike briefly in Ventura, it never
dawned on me the frame number,and it was always hidden behind a bunch of
crap in her garage. That was until it 'appeared' on Ebay and the frame
number was brought up by Bob Hovey. I look forward to sharing the details
with the CR gang and hope you Brian, Jim C. and anyone else who can give me
any insight and knowledge you can remember about the frame and circumstances
around Masi's America start-up. For what it's worth I used to live in
Carlsbad and my Brother still does, wonderful city!
Sincerely,
John Price
Albuquerque, NM USA
To: Cc: Sent: Friday, March 30, 2007 12:22 PM Subject: Re: [CR]ebay outing: cool Masi
>
>
> Bob and all,
>
> This is an interesting situation. Even though I've been ridiculously
> busy since even before the Framebuilders Show, which was BTW
> outstanding; nonetheless I hear about these types of auctions, usually
> from someone wanting some information or my advice or input. In this
> case, I received a call from one of my regular friends and infoseekers.
> He told me about the bike but wanted to be sure it was the real deal
> and original paint and all that. I didn't even look at the auction nor
> see the photos, since I was driving to work at the time. I told the
> caller, hang up the phone and hit the buy it now button without further
> delay or he will hate himself for the rest of his life. He did as I
> suggested. He is the new owner of the bike. There is a network of
> information available. Hopefully you are the one who calls the correct
> person at the correct time and gets the correct advice, and just in
> time. I'm sure within a few more minutes, if not seconds, that bike
> would belong to someone else.
>
> Since the seller did OK on his purchase, and the buyer did well also;
> this would be a rare case of good luck for the new owner even though it
> came through eBay. Just the right circumstances and choices of action
> to win the deal. It can happen!
>
> Brian Baylis
> La Mesa, CA
> Vintage Cycle Studios and Baylis Cycles are moving!
>
>
> -- BobHoveyGa@aol.com wrote:
>
>
> In a message dated 3/28/07 4:50:03 AM, Grant writes:
>
>
>>
>
>> Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2007 22:30:32 -0400
>> From: Grant McLean
>>
>
>> Wowie Zowie!!
>> Glad it's too big for me, or I'd have cried myself to sleep for a mont
> h.
>> My favorite part of the seller's listing is:
>> "I am not sure of the exact year of manufacture and I cannot find
>> a serial number (unless it is 1.S1 as seen in photo #7)"
>>
>
>> Yup, that "1" there would be a clue to something...
>>
>
>> Grant McLean
>> Toronto, Canada
>>
>
>>
>
>
>
> Indeed.
>
> A few of us have been having an interesting off-list conversation about
> this
>
> auction... If the seller had not put a "Buy it Now" on the bike,
> there might
>
> have been a few individuals (myself for sure) who would have written
> him and
>
> told him what he had. Just out of consideration.
>
>
> In this discussion, the question was posed that if the seller had
> posted the
>
> bike on the CR list instead of eBay, would he have had dozens of emails
>
>
> telling him either not to sell it, or that his price was too low ... or
> would those
>
> folks have been outnumbered by those reaching for their checkbooks?
>
> Most of
>
> us agreed that the former would occur, since this list has been, by and
> large,
>
> all about fellowship and fairness and educating each other.
>
> But eBay's a whole 'nother deal... maybe I'm wrong, but I think that mos
> t
>
> folks are very quick to write a seller when he has described something
>
> incorrectly in a way that places the object in a better light, but not
> as likely to
>
> write when he has described an item in a way that would tend to
> undervalue it and
>
> thereby benefit the astute bidder.
>
> When it comes to Masis, I tend to write the seller in either case, to
> correct
>
> any glaring inconsistency whether it might be of benefit to the bidder
> OR the
>
> seller. But in this case, the seller made that impossible because I wa
> s
>
> dead certain that by the time he read my email the bike would be gone,
> gone,
>
> gone.
>
> So when you don't have a friendly group of pals to help you out as he
>
> probably would have had if he had posted the bike on the list, the only
> alternative
>
> is a few minutes of what many would term "due diligence," which in this
> case
>
> could mean as little as typing a few words in Google and exploring the
> results.
>
> Most sellers are willing to do this, at least with Masis, since I've
> gotten
>
> dozens of emails from folks who have stumbled across my web site and
> either
>
> want more info on a Masi they're selling or want permission to post my
> link in
>
> their eBay description. Some might suggest that there might be too
> much info
>
> on my site for the mere passerby (and I'll freely admit that the site
> was not
>
> created for them, but for the more rabid Masiphile), but I still don't
> see how
>
> it would take more than about five or ten minutes of skimming to discove
> r
>
> both the year of his bike and the significance of a "1S1" serial number
> (either
>
> on the USA Registry page or my article on US serial numbers).
>
>
> So if you combine a lack of basic research with his "Buy It Now" which
> might
>
> have discouraged others besides myself from dropping him a cautionary
> email,
>
> it's probably safe to say that the seller deserved to get exactly the
> amount of
>
> money he asked for and not the amount that the bike was really worth.
>
> Bob Hovey
> Columbus, GA
> http://bhovey.com/
>
>
>
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