Having read of the frameset for sale on ebay how do you rate his work? Is he a KOF or if its old enough righteous enough to be kept on thread? The reason why I ask is that I have just bought a "Le Revolutionaire" low profile track frame + forks plus 24" front wheel for said bike, which I intend to build up as a fixed road bike. I once visited his shop, then outside Paris in 1982-3 and was mightily impressed with his advanced ideas and thinking. So I bought the f/f on impulse, (okay a very bad one as it was the purchase that broke the wifes back and the future looks ......single! oh errr) No frame numbers evident but uses Columbus Slx aerotubing. I also have a 1981 Le Jeune as a daily ride (ok for the thread?) with all the period bits, shimano, sr and crane rather than the French equivalent and its pink??? Any thoughts out there? Happyhippo (Not so bloody happy, actually), South Wales, UK -----Original Message----- From: classicrendezvous-bounces@bikelist.org [mailto:classicrendezvous-bounces@bikelist.org] On Behalf Of classicrendezvous-request@bikelist.org Sent: 23 April 2007 13:50 To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: Classicrendezvous Digest, Vol 52, Issue 83
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: some parts for sale... more sold (joel metz) 2. D. Salmon F/F For Sale (Michael Thompson) 3. <determining> [CR]Q factor or tread. (Harvey Sachs) 4. campy replica hood orders 5. campy replica hood orders 6. WTB Campagnolo 27.0 Seatpost (Rob O'Callaghan) 7. Re: To refinish or not to refinish? (Donald Gillies) 8. 1964 JRJ- Up & Running! (Larry Myers) 9. Re: Steel and Alloy components 10. Brooks: out of its mind ?? (Donald Gillies) 11. Brooks: out of its mind ?? (Donald Gillies) 12. RE: Brooks: out of its mind ?? (Mark Bulgier) 13. Gios on Toronto Craigslist (Brian) 14. $400 plus Campy brake set (Richard Robinson) 15. Automoto on Boise Craigslist (Darcy Warn) 16. WTT NOS Campagnolo 1015 Open C 2nd Version D.T Gear Lever - 4 - 1013/1 Lever (Raffaele Giordano) 17. Painting, restoration or revision? (gabriel l romeu)
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Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2007 19:22:34 -0700 From: joel metz <magpie@blackbirdsf.org> To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: Re: [CR]some parts for sale... more sold Message-ID: <a0620071cc251c8a4f76e@[10.0.1.2]> In-Reply-To: <a06200706c2519a3b209b@[10.0.1.2]> References: <a06200706c2519a3b209b@[10.0.1.2]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 1
mavic 120mm stem sold
thanks!
-joel
At 16:08 -0700 04.22.2007, joel metz wrote:
>selling some stuff to work on funding for my paris-brest-paris trip
>this year... pretty much everythings going for what i paid for it,
>or close to it.
>
>track wheelset, 36h. hubs: fb high flange. rims: fiamme red label
>rear, unknown tubular front. front wheel period built, tied and
>soldered. rear wheel built 5 years ago with modern double-butted
>spokes. new campy lockring, period track nuts, no cog. dusty set
>with plenty o dried glue on the rims thats been sitting in my
>basement for some time now, but they spin smoothly and are true. -
>$200
>
>graftek carbon fiber road frame 59cm - great shape, great chrome on
>lugs, missing decals. with appropriate milled-down campy seatpost.
>ive been meaning to build this with period boutique american-made
>components, but its just not happening, and ive got too many
>projects as it is. http://www.blackbirdsf.org/
>
>on that note, ive got a rear hi-e hub, high flange, 36h, no sticker,
>no skewer, and... a slightly bent axle. cosmetically quite nice
>though, and certainly good enough for a display bike, or something
>youre afraid to ride anyways (like, say, a graftek! :) ) though
>honestly, i think itd work just *fine* on a casual rider if you
>werent too picky... $25
>
>mavic ssc gruppo stem - 80mm has outline style logo on bar clamp
>face. $30 each
>
>cyclo (birmingham) "rosa" tension pulley - like the french "poulie"
>- replaces the lower derailleur pulley on cyclo chainstay-mount rear
>derailleurs with a flanged, toothless pulley rather than a toothed
>cog. new old stock in original box. only one i can ever remember
>seeing, most are french, and all the cyclo birmingham derailleurs
>ive seen have had toothed pulleys. $40
>
>prices dont include shipping (which will be usps priority or global
>priority, unless you have other preferences) - im preferring check
>(from cr members only) or money order for these guys cause im trying
>to cut down on the paypal fees so more money goes to the trip, but i
>wont quibble too much if you insist on paypal :)
>
>thanks!
>
>-joel
--
joel metz : magpie@blackbirdsf.org : http://www.blackbirdsf.org/
Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2007 19:23:56 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Thompson <meauxtown@yahoo.com> To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: [CR]D. Salmon F/F For Sale Message-ID: <925157.41304.qm@web63412.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: list Message: 2
Dear CR, I have listed one D. Salmon F/F, http://www.cyclesdsalmon for sale on e-bay, 200102840471. I have received my special order, not in my ideal size (no fault, just a communication error). I hope to sell said frame and fork so that I might re-order in my correct size. Please pass on to all who may be interested. Thanks, Michael Thompson Monroe, Louisiana
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Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2007 22:32:44 -0400 From: Harvey Sachs <hmsachs@verizon.net> To: biankita@comcast.net, Classic Rendezvous <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Subject: <determining> [CR]Q factor or tread. Message-ID: <462C1ACC.40804@verizon.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Reply-To: hsachs@alumni.rice.edu Message: 3
Way back when, I decided to check what Q factor or tread might be optimum for me. Being a fairly simple sort of empiricist, one winter day I got out the cross-country skis and when out across the field through the snow. Coming back, I measured the ski pathe widths, inside of left to inside of right, and outside of each to the other. That seemed to indicate how
wide I wanted my cranks to be (just a smidgen wider than inside-to-inside.
Then, come Spring, I forgot the measurements and got back on the bike to
ride. Seemed to work, though. Perhaps a necessary sacrifice to the knee gods? :-)
I suspect that Q matters a great deal to a somewhat smaller proportion of riders than the fraction that worry about it, but that's fine, too.
harvey sachs mcLean va (but did that measuring when we lived in cosmopolitan Cranbury, NJ, population about 2000, and had been for 50 years.)
This business of Q factor is a very interesting one. I have several bikes all deliberately set up with a narrow Q factor. I might add that the Q factor is narrow for me because my femurs are narrowly set in my rather narrow hip structure. When I attach a cycling shoe into the pedals of my bikes I get a measurement of about 5 inches from the center of the pedal (where the shoe and my foot would also be centered) to the center of the downtube. When you double this measurement to account for the other side, you get a total stance width of 10 inches. This 10 inch stance width corresponds to standing upright with the feet parallel and with ten inches between the center of one foot to the center of the other. Correspondingly I measure approximately 10 inches between my femurs as they exit my pelvis. In other words, a narrow Q factor is good for someone with a narrow hip structure, but not neccessarily good for someone with an average width.
I am basically saying that a narrow Q factor is overemphasized for most people who would probably be better off with a wider Q. It is normally said that we are most efficient when bone aligns over bone and strongest when the leg is thrusting directly down from its point of origin to the center of the foot or pedal. Once again we are seeing people swept up in a fashionable marketing stradegy without any regard for their own physical needs.
Some who know my recent drama with Superbe Pro cranks may know that my problem with using a Campy bottom bracket was that it spaced the cranks too far out, messing up chainline and Q factor. I recently found a Sprint spindle that has the same taper as Superbe Pro and am now using it on my Raleigh. The Q factor is reduced by less than a 1/4 of an inch on each side, making the total combined Q factor less than a half inch narrower. I not only can immediately feel the improvement in my cycling but also in my gear shifting. For me this lower Q is a good idea. Your mileage will most likely be different. One need not even say that as you gain body weight, the bone structure of your hips and therefore your Q factor does not change. Getting fatter or getting more muscular really does not change the Q. Your structure does not change much unless you are a woman after your first childbirth, in which case your femurs do exit wider from the hips.
For most of you, I bet your ideal stance is more like 10.5 inches apart and therefore your Q factor should allow for a wider measurement too. Your cycling may improve if you utilize cranks with a wider not narrower Q.
Garth Libre in Miami Fl USA ------------------------------
Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2007 23:00:19 EDT From: Rnitro1969@aol.com To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: [CR]campy replica hood orders Message-ID: <c5f.12229450.335d7b43@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 4
greetings
************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.
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Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2007 23:03:36 EDT From: Rnitro1969@aol.com To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: [CR]campy replica hood orders Message-ID: <cf9.e19786d.335d7c08@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 5
greetings.
5 orders mailed . still working on other orders.
thanks for your patience.
robbie fellows lakewood,ca.
************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.
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Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2007 21:31:02 -0700 From: "Rob O'Callaghan" <rocalla1@san.rr.com> To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: [CR]WTB Campagnolo 27.0 Seatpost Message-ID: <462C3686.3070003@san.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 6
Looking for a Campagnolo 27.0 seatpost (either 2-bolt or SR style single bolt) in very good to excellent condition to complete a project.
Please contact me offlist if you have a post.
Thanks in advance!
Rob O'Callaghan Del Mar, CA, USA (Ready to ride, but no seat post)
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Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2007 21:34:53 -0700 (PDT) From: Donald Gillies <gillies@cs.ubc.ca> To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: Re: [CR]To refinish or not to refinish? Message-ID: <200704230434.l3N4YrfI025555@cascade.cs.ubc.ca> Precedence: list Message: 7
Refinishing a bike is a personal question, and here are some things to think
1. do you have the money and the time to do it right? It's something you want to do to an old-and-trusted friend bike, not just a casual acquaintance bike. And, it can take 6 months to a year with a really good painter.
2. is the frame truly endangered, or is it just getting to look old?
3. is the original finish rare an ubtainium (like many obscure italian & french bikes with paint-based transfers and no decals)
On the other hand for some bikes there is a source for a virtual 'new old-stock re-finish' (e.g. Brian Baylis, Jim Allen, and Jim Cunningham - all ex-MASI painters, can rebuild and refinish a bike like-new with accurate decals from sssink etc.)
4. [ realistically ] don't try to make a silk-purse out of a sow's ear. trying to refinish a bike on the cheap can make a sow's ear out of a silk purse, on the other hand.
5. Is it a production bike where there are massive quantities of these bikes out there ~ perhaps you can trade your frame for a nicer one. If not, one should not be made to feel guilty about refinishing a mass production bike.
6. Lastly, think a little bit about the next owner. Chances are they may not enjoy a pink frame with polkadot lugs. They would enjoy it even less if it's powder coated, since these finishes are very difficult to remove. You are only a temporary caretaker of this bicycle. If well cared-for, it will last longer than your useful bike-riding lifetime.
- Don ("sow's ear") Gillies San Diego, CA ------------------------------
Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2007 22:56:54 -0700 (PDT) From: Larry Myers <curmudgeon1957@yahoo.com> To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: [CR]1964 JRJ- Up & Running! Message-ID: <126075.39051.qm@web55408.mail.re4.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: list Message: 8
Hey, guys-
My '64 JRJ 'San Remo-Roma' is built-up and going....if I did this
right, you can click on the link below, and see it. My thanks to Nelson
Miller & David Feldman, for providing me with leads as to the bikes
heritage, and to Bob Jackson Cycles, who provided me with the original
frame Order Card, thus allowing me to accurately date the frame. Lots of
fun; rides like a dream! http://www.flickr.com/
Cheers! Larry Myers Portland, Oregon, USA
--------------------------------- Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell? Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 03:55:19 EDT From: CPOTZ@aol.com To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: [CR]Re: Steel and Alloy components Message-ID: <c79.113bc852.335dc067@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 9
It has to be said that there was definately a 'fear' of alloy components in the early days, I know of several older clubman cyclists who wouldn't use alloy at all for stressed components. During my own research into all things cycling in the North Derbyshire area from around 1990-1965 ish I came across one chap in particular ,a rider of some repute and no small experience riding thousands of miles a year who helped set up the Alfreton section of the CTC in 1929. He in the early mid 50's bought as a 'package' an E.Allen of Ripley /Derbyshire clubman cycle, Reynolds 531, Nervex pro lugs,SA 3 speed rear,Williams steel cranks,Weinmann rims,GB bars, stem,brakes....because of the sort of chap he was and rather than get the shop to change them he did it himself, replacing the rims with Dunlop steel,brakes with Circa1938 Monitor Shureline? brakes, bars with Lauterwasser stype steel, BSA? steel swallow neck stem(extension) and also replaced the alloy guards with Bluemells celluloid.Most of the components came off his old 30's Rudge that had been 'retired'. This was told to me by his son who still has the bike(but will not part with it-yet!) .
Steve Chambers Chesterfield England.
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Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 01:12:43 -0700 (PDT) From: Donald Gillies <gillies@cs.ubc.ca> To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: [CR]Brooks: out of its mind ?? Message-ID: <200704230812.l3N8ChOZ003116@cascade.cs.ubc.ca> Precedence: list Message: 10
Nothing says, "I'm a horse-legged track rider" like the bag loops on the new B17 Sprinter special-edition saddles?!?!?
Is it just me or is anyone else starting to get a little irritated with the "we charge 50% more than the traffic will bear" pricing on brooks special edition products ??
Maybe someone should buy the rights to the Wrights name and give them a run for their money ....
- Don Gillies San Diego, CA ------------------------------
Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 01:13:16 -0700 (PDT) From: Donald Gillies <gillies@cs.ubc.ca> To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: [CR]Brooks: out of its mind ?? Message-ID: <200704230813.l3N8DGi2003121@cascade.cs.ubc.ca> Precedence: list Message: 11
Whoops.
Don Gillies San Diego, CA, USA, Earth. ------------------------------
Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 02:03:38 -0700 From: "Mark Bulgier" <Mark@bulgier.net> To: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Subject: RE: [CR]Brooks: out of its mind ?? Message-ID: <9327C3B25BD3C34A8DBC26145D88A9070644B8@hippy.home.here> In-Reply-To: <200704230812.l3N8ChOZ003116@cascade.cs.ubc.ca> References: <200704230812.l3N8ChOZ003116@cascade.cs.ubc.ca> Content-Type: text/plain;charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 12
Don Gillies wrote:
>
> Nothing says, "I'm a horse-legged track rider" like the bag loops on
> the new B17 Sprinter special-edition saddles?!?!?
>
> http://ebay.com/
Don, don't you see, they really were thinking, because those are TITANIUM bag loops (surely a phrase I never thought I would utter...). It's important that they be Ti because that means that when you hack saw them off, the sawed edge won't rust. See: Method in their madness!
The reason they are so expensive is the special leather, chosen only from premium bull udders.
I'm sure they'll sell like titanium hotcakes to brakeless fixed gear messengers and others who were dropped on their heads repeatedly as children.
Mark Bulgier Seattle WA USA ------------------------------
Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 07:25:39 -0400 (EDT) From: Brian <twobouvs@yahoo.ca> To: Classic Rendezvous <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Subject: [CR]Gios on Toronto Craigslist Message-ID: <882626.94975.qm@web88213.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: list Message: 13
Hi all
56cm Gios On Toronto Craigslist...
http://toronto.craigslist.org/
No relation to the seller.
Brian F Toronto, Canada
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Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 06:44:44 -0500 (GMT-05:00) From: Richard Robinson <vintagespoke@earthlink.net> To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: [CR]$400 plus Campy brake set Message-ID: <5550181.1177328684285.JavaMail.root@elwamui-hound.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Reply-To: Richard Robinson <vintagespoke@earthlink.net> Message: 14
Wow! Why are these Campy brakes going for so much? Long reach? I thought there were only "Normal" reach and "Short" reach sets. Could it be the hoods? See the below link...
http://ebay.com/
Regards, Richard (Searching through my extra parts bin) Robinson Jacksonville NC ------------------------------
Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 06:08:31 -0600 From: "Darcy Warn" <bolddisaster@hotmail.com> To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: [CR]Automoto on Boise Craigslist Message-ID: <BAY125-F1F3D847AFED6A866535ABC54B0@phx.gbl> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 15
Hi All,
I spotted this posting
http://boise.craigslist.org/
This Automoto definitely has Nervex lugs but I can't tell much else from the posting. I don't know the seller.
Darcy Warn very near Boise, ID
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Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 14:18:26 +0200 From: "Raffaele Giordano" <raf.gio@gmail.com> To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: [CR] WTT NOS Campagnolo 1015 Open C 2nd Version D.T Gear Lever - 4 - 1013/1 Lever Message-ID: <2e251fe70704230518x41670509q87f91ec9a670dddb@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 16
Hello Guys,
I have a NOS Campagnolo 2nd version of the downtube gear lever Open C 1015 model, please check the Catalogo 13 on Campyonly website. This gear leaver is for the front mech only, for the deragliatore centrale Gran Sport 1005/2. I am after a NOS or Lightly used 2nd or 1st [:)] edition open C downtube gear lever. It is to match the rear 1012 Gran Sport. I am in quite an urgent need of this, if needed pictures are available. Item complete.
Cheers, Raffaele Giordano Stockholm, Sweden ------------------------------
Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 08:52:08 -0400 From: gabriel l romeu <romeug@comcast.net> To: hsachs@alumni.rice.edu, "classicrendezvous@bikelist.org" <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Subject: [CR]Painting, restoration or revision? Message-ID: <462CABF8.7050605@comcast.net> In-Reply-To: <462C1ACC.40804@verizon.net> References: <462C1ACC.40804@verizon.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 17
Harvey, I was riding through a less urban part of Cranbury Saturday, still a lot of open space out there.
Anyway, your posting questioning the bike to bring to L'eroica was inspirational. I had bought a frame really cheap on Ebay some time ago of unknown provenance. It was in pretty poor shape cosmetically, lots of rust spots, bad paint and chrome. I was interested in trying to powdercoat a sort of beater bike, as i do the process in house for my furniture. I finished the bike in a gradated powder bronze, copper, and
finally oiled bronze (nomenclature of the colors) and painted the lugs silver. It had been hanging in my studio with this durable finish since
last fall, I could not think of a build that would differentiate it from
the other 'performance' bikes i have. I had eventually speculated it was an early 70s Raleigh grand sport.
So your posting about Eroica came up and I found it incredibly interesting as a paradigm for a build. Make something durable, versatile gearing on the expectations for terrain, attractive (of course, always a parameter), and could be left in Italy if a terrific find came up. I used free and leftover components I had picked up (recognize those throw in Modolo bars Lou?).
This 'Raleigh, an interpretation' is the result:
http://www.wooljersey.com/
btw, i fabricated the head badge in bronze.
rides really fine. Had it out 2x this weekend.
Since there has been quite some talk on what, how and why to paint, I threw this in to give the perspective that there are perspectives, that these are objects and meant to serve various functions such as icons, historical referents, investments, and, a 'tool' for riding. Back in my day and my area, we looked to personalize our rides. Authenticity was not in the vocabulary. When we unpacked a bike out of the box, everything not unnecessary came off the bike, from reflectors, chain guards to those premium lever hoods i see shilled on the list occasionally. Then the component upgrades based on affordability, preference, and advertiser's seduction...
..gabriel
btw, I have 2 biodegradable strippers available that do a fine job removing powdercoat, and do it myself mechanically with sandblasting.
> harvey sachs
> mcLean va
> (but did that measuring when we lived in cosmopolitan Cranbury, NJ,
> population about 2000, and had been for 50 years.)
-- gabriel l romeu after a fine weekend of riding all English (the bike above and one of the Ron Coopers) in Chesterfield nj usa ± http://studiofurniture.com Ø http://journalphoto.org ±
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End of Classicrendezvous Digest, Vol 52, Issue 83 *************************************************