Tom,
I can see that even though we chat on the phone now and again, I haven't talked to you nearly enough. Mike Kone is right. It is not about the weight but about the stiffness of the tubes. Their are 3 general tubing variables that effect ride quality. The wall thickness which can be as thick as 1mm on the ends and .7mm in the middle down (like Columbus SP) to the very lightest (except unusual tubes) which is .6/.3/.6. Tange Prestige used to make tubing in each .1mm wall thickness throughout that entire range. In addition they can be of several diameters and the 3d variable is tubing hardness. A good custom framebuilder selects the the right combination for the each customer so that there is a balance between stiffness and flexibility.
The reason steel has a bad reputation comes out of the need for production frames to be made out of tubing strong enough for the fattest guy. In addition they stay away from the more finicky and expensive heat treated tubing which framebuilders like to use.
This is why a custom bike's ride quality can't be judged by anyone else but who it was made for. I know you have said you liked some of your bikes more than others and that may have affected your opinion of the builder's ability itself. However, unless it was built for you, it doesn't count. Actually you've missed out on never having a custom frame made to your personal specifications. I'll recall a couple of recent phone calls to illustrate my point.
I'm not sure what list I wrote about Josh, the seminary student who came down to help me with my Ukraine Bicycle Project. He loves bikes and agreed to miter all the tubing we were sending to Kiev. He was also willing to do all sorts of tasks just to be helpful and hung around my shop for a couple of years. Anyway just before he graduates with his Master of Divinity degree, Jason and I help him make a personal frame for himself and another for his dad (using just the right tubing selection, of course). He did the grunt work and I did the brazing. Now he is an junior pastor out East and I get an excited phone call from him a few months ago. He is thrilled and loves his new bike. He never realized the difference it made compared to the good put production stuff he had ridden previously. I'm amused and a little annoyed. Had he not listened to what we were preaching in the shop all the time?
I got a similar call recently from Dan, one of my January framebuilding class students. He made a fixed in my class. He brought in a 40's English bike he really liked as a model of what he wanted to make. We tweaked the design a little and also - very importantly = chose tubing diameters, wall thickness and hardness that fit his body shape and fitness. Same story, he's thrilled and never realized before what a difference a custom made-just-for-him-and-not-to-someone-else could make. This personal revelation inspires him to start his own framebuilding business once he realized what a difference a custom frame can make.
My recommendation to you Tom is, don't buy three more used frames. Instead, pick a good custom builder (we vary in skill and ability) and place an order now. By the time you get it - hopefully before you die of natural causes - you will easily have saved enough money. Once you ride it - again assuming you are still young enough to do so - you will give a testimonial like Josh and Dan. If you are impatient and an instant gratification kind of guy (in framebuilders time), call Jeff Bock in Iowa. He knows what he is doing and can build you something this summer (because he doesn't have a website). He built his first frame in 1976.
So yes, we do have are reasons for choosing the right wall thickness of tubing and it isn't about how much the frame will weigh. Just because you can't see that difference doesn't mean it isn't real when you ride it.
Doug Fattic Niles, Michigan
Tom Sanders wrote:
Given that nearly all the light weight tubing for making bicycles weighs
relatively the same...a tiny variation doesn't seem to make much difference.
The frame itself would have only a very small weight difference from one to
another of these tubes, is my thought. Then realizing what a small portion
of the total weight of the bike is a function of frame weight, it is hard to
see how all this could translate to much difference in the real world.
Perhaps different tubing requires different construction techniques?
Possible, but doesn't seem to be a critical factor.7 When we discuss tire
weight, the weight of pedals or rims my attention is immediately drawn. I
feel these things really make a difference in the actual performance of the
bike. The difference in the total weight between different sets of high
quality tubes seems rather inconsequential by comparison. I wonder what the
frame builders on the list have to say about this? I know some use a mix of
tubing...they must have their reasons...
Tom Sanders
Lansing, Mi USA