Re: [CR]Cinelli Laser and Modolo Kronos

(Example: Events:Eroica)

From: <"brianbaylis@juno.com">
Date: Thu, 10 May 2007 04:49:36 GMT
To: biankita@comcast.net
Subject: Re: [CR]Cinelli Laser and Modolo Kronos
cc: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org

Garth,

Perhaps I should explain further my impressions and opinions regarding

the Cinelli Laser. And let me again state that the standard road

version of the Laser is not at all the same laser that is represented

by the Ken Denny Photos of the special Laser track sprint bike. That

is one of the nicest pieces of design and construction I've ever seen

for that type of bike.

My first complaint about the road version is how the rear brake cable

was routed through the top tube. There are three parts to my

objections here. To begin with, the angle that the cable enters and

exits the tubes is far too extreme, especially at the front of the top

tube. The entry should be at a relaxed, gentle, and graceful angle for

a number of reasons; not the least of which is that the brakes work

MUCH better that way. Most important on the rear brake on account of

the long route. Front brakes always work great (don't they?).

Furthermore, the Cinelli does not have a continuous tube through the

top tube (which explains why the entry is at nearly 90 degrees, an

internal tube would not allow one to route a tube in such an awkward

angle in the first place), and this makes is MUCH more difficult to

route a brake cable housing. Not only do you have to fish a piece of

brazing rod through there to slide the housing over, but the extreme

angles at both ends make it very difficult. Try it some time. Making

a "state of the art bicycle" should also include doing the basic

simple functional things at least as good as anything else of the

period; if not better or classier. They really dropped the ball here.

To top it off, the appearance, not to mention the function, is

compromised by that awful sharp angle. The cable turns much better,

the cable doesn't chafe, and it looks ten times better and more

refined if the proper entry angle and location are selected. OK,

judging from the period; I promise you there were plenty of

framebuilders who knew all this at the time. I promise!

Shall we move on to the derailleur cable routing? Why the hell not. To

begin with, I had to do a lot of work in the area around the braze-on

for the shifters and the entry points where the cable goes inside the

frame. Lots of bondo work and again not the ideal angle for the

cables, but not nearly as bad as the brake cable routing. The real

problem is how they failed to make a practical transition between the

down tube and the seat tube (for ft. der.) and the chainstay (for rear

der.) which made it a genuine certified nightmare to replace a

deralleur cable. So much so that I opted to leave the cables in with

the shifters still on them while I was restoring the bike, which made

the job more difficult, but apparently not as difficult as the other

alternative (unless you considered suicide). Anyway, if they had come

up with a solution for this situation I would be REALLY impressed. But

not so in this case; and I wouldn't be at all surprised if the aero

bike built by Weigle that Alan mentioned during the thread at least

had a much better approach if not some genius solution to this problem

that plagues anyone who tries internally routing cables continuously

from the tubes through the BB shell. Dale mentioned that the look of

the laser was the feature that was being recognized and "appreciated"

by people at the time. My feeling is you people only see the visual

way too much and overlook the basic elements of design and function in

the process. I'm suggesting a more enlightened perspective as an

alternative. If the piece passes the design and function part first,

then look at the visual/perceived appearance for innovation and

styling. Cinelli most definitely does not win the award for solving

this problem.

Taking a break to make a float in a frosty glass from the freezer,

using pineapple soda and apricot-mango sherbet. Yummy!! Yes, it been a

bit warm here the past few days, but here in California we know how to

deal with it, yessir! This is so good I may take a bath in this stuff.

Since I don't have a Laser in front of me right now I'm sure there are

a number of things I don't remember about what other basic

framebuilding shortcomings the design has. But they added a lot of

metal and brass that does little for aerodynamics but didn't reinforce

the thin head tube where the headset presses in, they tend to stretch.

As I recall there are or can be some "issues" with the seat post

binder also. One of the most basic things one has to do at least a

decent job of for the bike to even be ridable. Fortunately for

everyone I don't have one to look at, so we can spare everyone the

continuing rant.

My point here is that Awarding a functional object cult status based

on it's "innovative looks" (and I wouldn't be at all surprised if

someone else did it first, if not better first) doesn't work for me.

Obviously I see a different bike when I look at a Laser than most

people see. But that's part of what's so wonderful about this list.

Many points of view are presented. You choose what works for you. I

would not and do not think less of anyone who likes, appreciates, or

owns a Laser. Those who know me know that is 100% true. But on the

other hand, I felt it was necessary to explain further why my opinion

was stated in my earlier post. The MOMA is a good place for the Laser.

There, people who don't know a lot about bikes can see it and go "WOW,

check out THAT bike!" That's IS a work of art. It is a bicycle also,

but not a very good one IMHO. I prefer a really great bicycle that

just happens to be a work of art also. But that's just me.

Thanks for listening. I think I'll go take a float in the bath. ;-)

Brian Baylis

La Mesa, CA


-- Bianca Pratorius wrote:


After Brian Baylis' review of the Cinelli, I can see why the bike

ended

up in the MOMA. It is a beautiful piece of art from a visual point of

view. The best art however is like the best engineering: Form follows

function. If the Cinelli Laser is a heavy impractical piece then it

does not appeal to the sportsman in all of us. It's a show dog, not a

hunter. It's a poseur. It's an all visual flow and no go item that

should be hung on the wall and left to those who love to ooh and ahh

and not those who love to sweat. Body filler or not, it's not a

classical lightweight in that its form hinders the melding of body and

machine. I sold my plastic Modolo brake levers at a pretty penny on

Ebay last year. They seemed so delicate that I felt I could barely put

them in the box without breaking them. I was so glad that the

purchaser

of those and the matching flexy Modolo shift levers said they were

going in a show case and not on a bike. They belonged in the show

aisle

and not the pace line. The levers were so bendy that when they came

off

the bike I had them on, the bike seemed to let out a sigh of relief...

the same sigh I let out when I shipped them off.

Garth Libre in Miami Fl USA