I've just caught the tail end of this conversation, but in the pursuit of promoting CMC, I wanted to let you know that we are having a frame building demo on site at the event.
Nemisis Project is a free ride type frame built by a local guy in Sacramento, sold mostly in Europe. He will do the bulk of the filing off site and final touches here, and then weld. He is planning on doing two to three demos on Saturday and two on Sunday.
I've never seen a frame built and I think this will be a really interesting way to get a glimpse into the project.
Thanks
-----Original Message----- From: classicrendezvous-bounces@bikelist.org [mailto:classicrendezvous-bounces@bikelist.org] On Behalf Of classicrendezvous-request@bikelist.org Sent: Friday, June 01, 2007 12:16 AM To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: Classicrendezvous Digest, Vol 54, Issue 1
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CR
Today's Topics:
1. Small Chris Chance road bike listed on the bay.... (mike spess) 2. Rudge on Toronto Craigslist (Brian) 3. high cost of eyetalian bb cutters (Peter Koskinen) 4. Re: Ciocc Pix Posted to Wool Jersey album (Chuck Schmidt) 5. dating the chrome Condor (bmaster flex) 6. Cirque hotel space to share (looking for) (Baron von Drais) 7. . Re: [CR]Ciocc Pix Posted to Wool Jersey album (P.C. Kohler) 8. Re: Goodbye, East Coast (Joseph Bender-Zanoni) 9. RE: high cost of eyetalian bb cutters (Anthony Kinder) 10. Help from CR member in France- Follis Headbadge/Decal (Sean Flores) 11. Cirque Auction 07; Please read it all! (John Pergolizzi) 12. RE: "nickle pinarello" (Mark Bulgier) 13. Re: . Re: [CR]Ciocc Pix Posted to Wool Jersey album (Chuck Schmidt) 14. Re: Mysteries of framebuilding (brianbaylis@juno.com)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 May 2007 19:15:08 -0700 (PDT) From: mike spess <mike_spess@yahoo.com> To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: [CR]Small Chris Chance road bike listed on the bay.... Message-ID: <612969.58966.qm@web60315.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: list Message: 1
The seller has it labeled currently as a "Cinelli Chance".
It has a Chris Chance head decal.
He probably saw "Cinelli" on the bottom of the BB shell and the words "CHANCE" on the head tube and put two and two together.
Link is:
http://ebay.com/
No relation to seller, Chris Chance, Cino Cinelli, etc.
Mike Spess Austin, Texas USA
--------------------------------- Finding fabulous fares is fun. Let Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite travel sites to find flight and hotel bargains.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 May 2007 22:18:01 -0400 (EDT) From: Brian <twobouvs@yahoo.ca> To: Classic Rendezvous <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Subject: [CR]Rudge on Toronto Craigslist Message-ID: <420808.95430.qm@web88204.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: list Message: 2
Hi List
And a now a 1951 Rudge has appeared on Craigs Toronto
http://toronto.craigslist.org/
No relations at all... etc
Brian Toronto
--------------------------------- Be smarter than spam. See how smart SpamGuard is at giving junk email the boot with the All-new Yahoo! Mail
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 May 2007 22:48:51 -0400 From: "Peter Koskinen" <peter@prkbikes.com> To: <FujiFish1@aol.com> Cc: Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: [CR]high cost of eyetalian bb cutters Message-ID: <20070601024849.PTDJ19701.ibm66aec.bellsouth.net@gateway> Content-Type: text/plain;charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 3
Date: Thu, 31 May 2007 21:00:16 EDT From: FujiFish1@aol.com To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org SNIP Subject: [CR]Bottom bracket taps (Italian) ... why so ridiculously high priced?
I've been casually looking for some affordable Italian thread b.b. taps for my LBS for some time now. The "Doc" at the shop has a fairly complete Campy
tool kit, including the handles and dies for English b.b. cutting, but he lacks the Italian inserts. Looking on line tonight, I have seen prices of complete Park units in the range of 500 to 600 dollars ... and individual Ital. dies at about $275 each ... just for that one small little part!!! What is the deal
here? This seemingly exorbitant and gouging pricing is just as aggrevating as the 6-7 hundred dollar modern light units being sold in the catalogs (off topic part, so please drop that aspect of the discussion).
I ask again ... what is the deal with this high cost? Thanks...
Ciao, Mark Agree END SNIP?
Mark, In case you aren't aware, the US Dollar has been flushed down the toilet against the Euro. Today the price is $1.34511 = 1 Euro. You do the math and figure it out. If you need help with your arithmetic don't call your president because he can't add either.
Cheers,
Peter Reid Koskinen
Chapel Hill, NC, 27516 USA
=09
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 May 2007 19:51:36 -0700 From: Chuck Schmidt <chuckschmidt@earthlink.net> To: Classic Rendevous <Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Subject: Re: [CR]Ciocc Pix Posted to Wool Jersey album Message-ID: <56B269B8-AC12-48F0-ADDF-7897C49B621E@earthlink.net> In-Reply-To: <000801c7a3df$eba9b270$1af0fea9@peter5ca78cb10> References: <000801c7a3df$eba9b270$1af0fea9@peter5ca78cb10> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 4
On May 31, 2007, at 5:00 PM, P.C. Kohler wrote:
> I have posted photos and information on the latest addition to my
> stable
> (well the bedroom of my one bedroom apt if you must know!): a 1982ish
> Ciocc Mockba 80.
>
> http://www.wooljersey.com/
> ciocc/
>
> This was purchased in March from Mark Buswell of SF here on the CR
> List.
> (and thanks Mark for the aces packing job!) as a frameset. Now back on
> the road with the usual Campagnolo 2nd gen Super Record gruppo,
> Ambrosio rims etc. tutti Italiani. .
>
> A machine of exceptional finish (I don't know how or why, but this
> Ciocc
> has the bestest chrome I've ever seen on a bike frame, including my
> 1950s Raleighs), brilliant handling (the classic early 1980s stiff
> angles, uber responsive handling and harsh ride which is a gratifying
> contrast to some of my other machines) and one of those bikes that ran
> like a dream and old friend from the first ride.
>
> Peter Kohler
> Washington DC USA
Quite a transformation from your first CR post in Oct '03:
"My main interest is British bicycles, specifically roadsters and club bikes of the late '40s and 50s. I grew up with Raleighs in the 1960s although I lapsed when I was 16 and bought a Peugeot UE-8! My collection comprises: 1948 Raleigh Dawn Tourist 1948 Raleigh Lenton Clubman 1949 Raleigh Clubman 1951 Raleigh Lenton Tourist 1951 Raleigh Clubman 1978 Raleigh DL-1 Tourist 1978 Raleigh Competition GS 1949 Rudge Super Safety 1951 Rudge De Luxe Sports Tourist with a post-war Raleigh RRA presently in the acquisition stage!"
And, "So, if Hilary Stone will provide me with a mint '38 Rudge-Whitworth Aero-Olympic (in Rudge maroon and 23" frame if you can manage it), close ratio AR25/3 hub, I'll take on all comers... name the time and place, gentlemen."
Enjoy the ride Peter, it's all good...
Chuck Schmidt South Pasadena, CA
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 May 2007 22:52:33 -0400 From: "bmaster flex" <breaches@gmail.com> To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: [CR]dating the chrome Condor Message-ID: <19360df00705311952l75e62ef0i3f439479d61f277c@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 5
Hey all, I'm hoping a few of you can help me decipher the BB stamp on the chrome condor I bought last week. The BB shell is stamped V3170. The lugs appear to be superbe. The fork has a sloping crown and the BB shell is stamped Nervex. I will eventually post a link with pictures but have been incredibly busy working lately and that hasnt made the top of my list. I have dismantled it and will have it smooth and rideable for Le Cirque although definitely not finished. When I got it, it was built up with first generation super record components and in need of some fresh grease and a good cleaning.
thanks in advance Barry Scott Brooklyn, NY
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 May 2007 23:08:40 -0400 From: "Baron von Drais" <draisienne@hotmail.com> To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: [CR]Cirque hotel space to share (looking for) Message-ID: <BAY125-F184AE0372172321FF8A221CB2C0@phx.gbl> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 6
Hi all,
I will be attending Cirque this year for the swap meet and am wondering if anybody has hotel accommodation space to share. I am looking for accommodations for saturday evening. I will be rolling in after supper and will be gone fairly early the next morning. Mostly it's just a need to have a safe place to park the car and a shower! A spot on the carpet is fine with me, I'll bring my sleeping bag :) I can pay a portion of the night's rent or give you parts in trade. Yes, that means you get first pick at what I am
bringing! I don't drink, I don't smoke, I don't walk naked in my sleep, etc etc.. So, anybody? How about it?
Regards, Peter Schwar Montreal, Canada
_________________________________________________________________ Windows Live Hotmail. Even hotter than before. Get a better look now. http://www.newhotmail.ca?icid=WLHMENCA148
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 May 2007 23:08:28 -0400 From: "P.C. Kohler" <kohl57@starpower.net> To: <Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Subject: . Re: [CR]Ciocc Pix Posted to Wool Jersey album Message-ID: <003d01c7a3fa$20ca2a60$1af0fea9@peter5ca78cb10> Content-Type: text/plain;charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 7
Yes, Chuck... quite a transition indeed!! You should approve!! Although admittedly the Raleigh Clubmans went mainly because their 22" frame size
just doesn't work for me (that size and weight thing again!). But yep, it's fun to try and enjoy new things. My last two additions have been poles apart, a '58 Raleigh RRA Moderne and this '82 Ciocc and I sure ain't going to say which rides better or I enjoy more. My favourite bike
is always the one I just rode.
And yes, I still want that '38 Rudge Aero!!!
Peter Kohler Washington DC USA
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 May 2007 23:50:08 -0400 From: Joseph Bender-Zanoni <joebz@optonline.net> To: Thomas Adams <thomasthomasa@yahoo.com> Cc: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: Re: [CR]Goodbye, East Coast Message-ID: <465F9770.80102@optonline.net> In-Reply-To: <720854.33890.qm@web35601.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <720854.33890.qm@web35601.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Precedence: list Message: 8
Great news Tom , you can't take the KC out of the guy. I'm happy that you and Christine can return to the home state.
Just in case people are wondering why I will be missing the Cirque, I am
heading further East, to the New Haven CT area, on short notice. Sell house, buy house, move start a new job July 2. Open to offers on some less than draft horse size bikes also.
Joe Bender-Zanoni Great Notch, NJ
Thomas Adams wrote:
> Well, it looks like Cirque X will not only be Dale's swan song, but
will also be my farewell to my east coast friends. Uncle Sam is moving
the Adams' back west. KCTOMMY is going home, with orders to report to
HHC, 1st Infantry Division at Fort Riley Kansas. For a while it looked
like I would have to miss Cirque X but now my report date is pushed back
to 1 July, so I'll be able to squeeze in le Cirque between HHG shipping,
pre-positioning Christine's car west of the Mississippi and generally
taking care of all those billion details associated with a big move.
>
> I would just like to take a minute to thank everyone who welcomed
Christine and I out east with such open arms, attended our Sandy Hook
rides and entertained us in your homes. If any of you are passing
through Manhattan (Kansas, that is) please do give me a ring or drop me
an email. The door will always be open.
>
> I think I got all my bikes out of S. Willis's shop, and I believe I
don't have any pending deals with anyone, but if I owe anyone anything,
or if someone was going to make a fabulously overpriced offer on one of
the Adams stable of draft horse sized bikes, speak now or forever hold
your peace.
>
> Farewell to the Jersey Boyz. You welcomed in this strange
interloper, adopted me and treated me as an honorary brother: the fat
slow one for whom everyone has to make allowances. Mikey, Gabriel,
Steven M., Steve W., Dave, Ray, Rita, Kevin, Joe B-Z and many others I
know I missed, I will miss all of you. And Vaya con Dios to the Potomac
crew: Dan, Wayne, Harvey, Paul, Ken, Ben, Peter, Larry and Jill. I
didn't get down to ride with you nearly enough.
>
> Of course I will stay on the list, but I don't know when, if ever,
we will ride together again. It's been great, folks.
>
> Tom Adams
> Heading back to the Land of Oz with the Big Red One
> One last time from Shrewsbury NJ, USA
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Looking for earth-friendly autos?
> Browse Top Cars by "Green Rating" at Yahoo! Autos' Green Center.
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
>
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2007 12:14:58 +0800 From: "Anthony Kinder" <antct1@tpg.com.au> To: "'Peter Koskinen'" <peter@prkbikes.com>, <FujiFish1@aol.com> Cc: Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: RE: [CR]high cost of eyetalian bb cutters Message-ID: <200706010414.l514EtnQ017300@mail8.tpgi.com.au> In-Reply-To: <20070601024849.PTDJ19701.ibm66aec.bellsouth.net@gateway> Content-Type: text/plain;charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Reply-To: antct1@tpg.com.au Message: 9
Mark, Having been through the same issue trying to replace the only Campag tool missing out of my big tool kit, I share your observations of the prices to me paid. Perhaps more in my case, it wasn't the money but I just couldn't find the Campag one with Ital taps to buy. Given that my use was going to only be thread cleaning after say paintwork and the like, I didn't feel the need to have either the Campag or Park versions which appear to be capable of putting new thread in a blank piece of steel. I ended up buying a cheaper version around the US$150 mark made by Cyclus. I have used it several times and can report that for the light work I am doing, it performs extremely well. As an example, I frame was proving to be a bit stubborn in accepting a NOS Campag BB. I used this tool and with very light action and some good quality cutting oil, it was a simple 5 minute job. The result was the BB could be installed with the minimum of effort. It would seem that it will come down to what you want to use the tool for. New thread, or cleaning up paint or rust. All that said, if anyone has the Campag tool with Ital, there is a vacant space in my tool kit for it. Anthony Kinder Perth, Western Australia
-----Original Message----- From: classicrendezvous-bounces@bikelist.org [mailto:classicrendezvous-bounces@bikelist.org] On Behalf Of Peter Koskinen Sent: Friday, 1 June 2007 10:49 AM To: FujiFish1@aol.com Cc: Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: [CR]high cost of eyetalian bb cutters
Date: Thu, 31 May 2007 21:00:16 EDT From: FujiFish1@aol.com To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org SNIP Subject: [CR]Bottom bracket taps (Italian) ... why so ridiculously high priced?
I've been casually looking for some affordable Italian thread b.b. taps for my LBS for some time now. The "Doc" at the shop has a fairly complete Campy
tool kit, including the handles and dies for English b.b. cutting, but he lacks the Italian inserts. Looking on line tonight, I have seen prices of complete Park units in the range of 500 to 600 dollars ... and individual Ital. dies at about $275 each ... just for that one small little part!!! What is the deal
here? This seemingly exorbitant and gouging pricing is just as aggrevating as the 6-7 hundred dollar modern light units being sold in the catalogs (off topic part, so please drop that aspect of the discussion).
I ask again ... what is the deal with this high cost? Thanks...
Ciao, Mark Agree END SNIP?
Mark, In case you aren't aware, the US Dollar has been flushed down the toilet against the Euro. Today the price is $1.34511 = 1 Euro. You do the math and figure it out. If you need help with your arithmetic don't call your president because he can't add either.
Cheers,
Peter Reid Koskinen
Chapel Hill, NC, 27516 USA
=09
_______________________________________________
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 May 2007 21:31:32 -0700 From: Sean Flores <seaneee175@gmail.com> To: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Subject: [CR]Help from CR member in France- Follis Headbadge/Decal Message-ID: <C284EF34.6BF8%seaneee175@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain;charset="ISO-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 10
So I have been trying for some time (to no avail) to contact Follis to get a headbage and possibly replacement decals for my Follis 072 GL. I¹ve read posting in several places from people who have been successful in contactin g them and getting replacement items for their vintage rides.
I¹ve sent probably half a dozen to emails in the past year, none of which were replied to. I even had a friend who speaks French translate one for me. No luck.
Is there a member in France that could help. Even if it¹s just helping me craft another email? Or does anyone have any suggestions. I¹m getting ready to paint and my decals are shot, headbage missing.
Thanks all.
Sean Flores San Francisco, CA
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 May 2007 21:51:01 -0700 From: "John Pergolizzi" <jtperry1@sbcglobal.net> To: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Subject: [CR]Cirque Auction 07; Please read it all! Message-ID: <001301c7a408$77ae6540$4001a8c0@Perry> Content-Type: text/plain;charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 11
Dearest list, This year's Cirque du Cyclisme Charity Auction will soon be upon us and it promises to be THE BEST yet!. This is the second anniversary of The Auction is an official Cirque event and rumors already abound of fantastic bicycles and components that will be offered up to the highest bidder that night!! =09 Already John Slawta of Landshark has donated a custom built frame, Joe Bell (Giuseppe Campanello) a beautiful paint job, and Ted Ernst has dug out some chaska's and cycling ephemera. Commemorative posters from the NAHBS signed by the 29 most important people in the lugged steel world will be available and are now shown on the wooljersey web site. And that's only the start! The history of the auction from it's humble beginnings in the Battleground Inn 4th floor hallway to raising big bucks for charity is really pretty amazing and it's because of youse guys! I, John T.Pergolizzi am Auction organizer and chief auctioneer. Johnny Baron will act as auctioneer's 1st assistant and chief $ collector. Harvey Sachs will be taking up the slack as my voice goes south. Jamie Swan is auction consultant and official tag writer. Yes, each item will be tagged and numbered by lot. Boy, we're getting professional! Through the generous help of Morgan Fletcher, you can post and view some of this years booty at our online Auction catalogue of the hottest , most desirable items at The Wooljersy site! Go here to view and, most importantly, to post a photo of the items you will be selling at The Auction :
http://www.wooljersey.com/
Here's da rules:
-Please limit yourself to 4 photos of a bicycle. Make um good ones! -Please only post a maximum of 3 photos for a "rare" part -Only 2 photos for a "usual" part -items without reserve, or with reserve can be posted. Please DO NOT post $ reserve amounts. - a very concise description is recommended.
These rules are ment to to conserve bandwidth. You DO NOT need a password to post. I have editing capacity, so iffin ya don't stick to the rules, BIG BROTHER is watching!
As always, ALL I ask is that you donate at least a small percentage of the proceeds of your auctioned bits (20% minimum suggested of the sellers end) to charity. May a youse donate 100%. WOW! If you can't get to Greensboro, then feel free to send your donated greasy old parts to Dale's shop. Mark the box "Charity Auction Donation" and we will auction the parts off. Logistics make it too difficult to do this and send back $, so this service will be provided to "full donation" situations only. I thank you in advance for your understanding in this matter. Many, many sellers made very generous donations at the last three auctions to benefit the Make a Wish Foundation in 2004 (The Make a Wish Foundation thanks you all again for the $1,856.00 donation). and Operation Smile ( http://www.operationsmile.org ) in 2005 for the over $4,000.00 donation and in 2006 a $6,500.00 donation again to Operation Smile! Since 1982, Operation Smile's volunteers have provided free facial reconstructive surgery to tens of thousands of children and young adults in 25 developing countries and the United States. 90,000 children have been treated. 87% of cash and in-kind donations go directly to programs helping children. Operations cost $3,000 here, but only $250 overseas. That's 42 smiling faces my friends! This has become my favorite charity, so I hope you will all join me in helping to write THE BIG check to them again this year. I've posted letters from Operation Smile in relation to past Cirque du Cyclisme Charity Auctions on my wooljersey site. Please take a look:
http://www.wooljersey.com/
Double click on the letter to get it real BIG! Over $12,000.00 for charity has been raised in total. Wow, what generous folks! I thank you all for the pleasure of making this auction happen.
This years schedule calls for the Charity Auction to take place on Friday night June 8,2007 and go till there just ain't nuth'n left to sell! Take a look:
http://www.classicrendezvous.com/
A wonderful buffet dinner is included with a nominal admission fee of only 25 bucks ($35.00 after 6/1/07)! Our Dinner/Auction event will be located at a deluxe venue wonderfully decorated for our enjoyment. A preview & inspection of the auction goods will give prospective buyers a much better look at the wares and there will be a party of sorts with all kinds of hilarity prior to the auction itself. A 50/50 auction will give some lucky ace a few extra bucks to spend and help raise more $ for charity. AND get this: the new Jeff Groman film "Six Day Bicycle Race" will be shown before the dinner. Wow, I'm tired already! And other possible fun stuff will include:
-Musical saddles -blow up the inner tubes (until they burst) -Pin the tail on the Masi game -"The Unknown Prize"-- you bid on a box that has a very good item; but only the auctioneer knows its identity!
So please prepare youse selves for a great time! Look through those boxes and bins for all your old junk, unused frames, too BIG bicycles and other bits that you would like to pass on to the next user and know that a very good cause will benefit from your generosity. Don't hesitate; sign up now!
JohnT.Pergolizzi La Jolla, California MORE TO COME!!!!!!!!!
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 May 2007 23:42:21 -0700 From: "Mark Bulgier" <Mark@bulgier.net> To: "Mathieu Jacobs" <MJacobs@MAHLUM.com>, <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Subject: RE: [CR]"nickle pinarello" Message-ID: <9327C3B25BD3C34A8DBC26145D88A90706457E@hippy.home.here> In-Reply-To: <15BED945680B2A4392995DF6943E3833A2E107@PDXDeschutes.lan.mahlum.com> References: <15BED945680B2A4392995DF6943E3833A2E107@PDXDeschutes.lan.mahlum.com> Content-Type: text/plain;charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 12
Mathieu Jacobs wrote:
> [snipped] upon a spurt of insanity purchased a 1984 pinarello montello
> that is nickle plated!
> Can anybody help me with information on this bike? Was it considered a
> higher quality italian frame? Nickle finish, what is that about?
I don't know where the name Montello comes from, but it apparently has been Pinarello's top of the line frame for some time. It's a carbon-fiber time-trial frame now, famous (or infamous) for being one of the most expensive bike frames in the world.
Google tells us that Montello appears in several place names in Italy, such as Selva del Montello, Crocetta del Montello, Giavera del Montello, Volpago del Montello; which are all in the Veneto region I believe -- as is Treviso, home of Pinarello. So it may be just a place name, or it might mean something in the local dialect -- "little mountain" maybe? It also appears to be a kind of Pinot Grigio (white wine), popular in the Veneto.
Alexei Grewal won the 1984 Olympics Men's Road Race on a Montello. His was painted though - can't tell you anything about the nickel plated version. Sounds nice - any chance you could snap some photos of it?
Here are some photos of a Pinarello that Battaglin rode in the '81 Giro,
which he won:
http://bulgier.net/
Small world department: Mathieu is a principal at Mahlum Architects, and I help with the computer network there, though we have never met (that I can recall). He's based at the Portland office and I only visit the Seattle office. I'm a consultant, not an employee of Mahlum, so I don't go to the company parties. ;)
Mark Bulgier Seattle WA USA
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 May 2007 23:53:40 -0700 From: Chuck Schmidt <chuckschmidt@earthlink.net> To: Classic Rendevous <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Subject: Re: . Re: [CR]Ciocc Pix Posted to Wool Jersey album Message-ID: <51A6B84A-0D43-48DA-B0A9-BE0F243F8AF5@earthlink.net> In-Reply-To: <003d01c7a3fa$20ca2a60$1af0fea9@peter5ca78cb10> References: <003d01c7a3fa$20ca2a60$1af0fea9@peter5ca78cb10> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 13
On May 31, 2007, at 8:08 PM, P.C. Kohler wrote:
> Yes, Chuck... quite a transition indeed!! You should approve!!
> Although
> admittedly the Raleigh Clubmans went mainly because their 22" frame
> size
> just doesn't work for me (that size and weight thing again!). But yep,
> it's fun to try and enjoy new things. My last two additions have been
> poles apart, a '58 Raleigh RRA Moderne and this '82 Ciocc and I sure
> ain't going to say which rides better or I enjoy more. My favourite
> bike
> is always the one I just rode.
>
> And yes, I still want that '38 Rudge Aero!!!
>
> Peter Kohler
> Washington DC USA
Yes, there is always the NEXT bike...
You're exactly right Peter. People ask me the same thing knowing that I have ridable bikes from the 1930s to present and my answer's the same... my favorite is the one I just rode!
Just doesn't get any better than being able to compare and contrast the best bikes from different eras by riding them... you experience something new with each ride!
Chuck Schmidt South Pasadena, CA USA
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2007 07:17:40 GMT From: "brianbaylis@juno.com" <brianbaylis@juno.com> To: bobhoveyga@aol.com Cc: nickzz@mindspring.com Cc: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: Re: [CR]Mysteries of framebuilding Message-ID: <20070601.001759.784.502604@webmail24.lax.untd.com> Content-Type: text/plain MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 14
Bob,
Albert is somewhat like you describe. But his main interest is in the
new bikes they are building at any given time. One reason. There is no
money in the older bikes. Only the current bikes generate income. The
old bikes are just attached to people who want to know more about them
and waste his time asking questions. I found Ernesto Colnago to be
exactly the same way, upon the one occasion I had the opportunity to
ask him if there were any early 70's bikes floating around in Italy.
As a musician myself, I have to give a different perspective on
performing music. During the process of playing music, at least for me
it requires a lot of concentration. Also the balance of the entire
presentation is not best heard from my vantage point. I have to admit,
listening to recordings of performances and rehearsals is something I
enjoy tremendously. Two reasons. I can hear the entire work from the
perspective of the audience. Second, it is by far the best way to hear
what needs to be improved or hear the things I didn't hear while
performing the music. 90% of the music I listen to are recording of
groups I've played with over the years. Actually more satisfying than
playing the music, which for me involves a certain amount of stress
and intense concentration.
Insofar as framebuilding goes; my primary joy is in building the bike
and using my brains and my hands to create it. To have others tell me
they love their bike or think my work is great is good and all that;
but it does not compare to actually doing the work. Riding my bikes is
fun too; but I have LOTS of great bikes and most of them are a joy to
ride. Builders who only ride their own bikes are very shortsighted and
stand to miss a lot that can be learned from other peoples work.
Making lots of bikes for oneself is great also. I've made over 50
bikes for myself over the last 35 years. That's how you learn. Ride
everything. Make a variety of bikes and learn as much as you can about
each one that is within your area of interest.
Brian Baylis
La Mesa, CA
Oh, and there's more to the story... this lady went for years trying
to
figure out ways NOT to sell her work. She gave quilts to relatives,
then
friends, then her doctor, dentist, and hairdresser. When her output
finally
outstripped her supply of friends, she would just spread the most
recent
quilt on the bed in her guest room. When I met her, they went at
least two
dozen deep on that bed. But still her attitude remained that she was
not
going to pollute her one real joy in life by taking money for it. In
the
back of her mind I think she knew that they would get sold someday,
just not
by her... perhaps her daughter would sell them after she died to put
her
granchildren thru college or something.
The return she got from her quilting brings up an interesting point,
one
that's worth examining because we all know that almost no one becomes
a
framebuilder thinking they will make a lot of money... almost everyone
has
other reasons, some of them perhaps bordering on compulsion. So what
is the
primary source of satisfaction artists and craftsmen get from their
work? I
know quite a few painters who admire the work they've done and always
keep a
few of their best pieces on the wall (if they can afford to), and I
know
many craftsmen who enjoy using the objects they create, including
quite a
few framebuilders who really enjoy riding their own bikes.
But I know other artists who could care less about a piece once it is
done.
For them, the only real joy is in the doing, and once a work is
completed it
becomes an object like any other and they exhibit a peculiar
disconnection
or even disdain for the piece. Several folks have mentioned on the
list
that Eisentraut may be a bit like this, he seems to display no
interest at
all in his past work and expresses amusement and puzzlement over those
who
do. Perhaps these people are more like musicians than traditional
artists... because once the last note of a piece of music fades, it is
no
more. All that is left for the musician who only feels truly alive
when he
is playing is to continually look to the next song.
Bob Hovey Columbus, GA
Brian Writes:
If I could do as the quilter did (alas, I'm not a receptionist), I would do so also. The pleasure and satisfaction of spending enough time on a frame to make it purposful and unique at the same time is satisfaction enough to feed the soul and give purpose to life. The only standards that I have lowered in order to continue as I do are my standard of living. There are other ways to approach the situation, but the system I abide by works for me.
Brian Baylis
La Mesa, CA
<snipped> I knew a wonderful quilter who worked as a receptionist and gave her quilts away only to those she felt would appreciate them. She would spend several hundred hours on a quilt and for her it was all about love, so she was not about to hand it over to strangers for money.
Bob Hovey Columbus, GA USA
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End of Classicrendezvous Digest, Vol 54, Issue 1 ************************************************