No wonder classic bikes are preceived as being out of the mainstream when they even get trashed on the CR list! In my opinion - and I'll get jumped on for saying it, the reason most folks don't respect steel is that they've never experienced it correctly.
Many developments the past few years on modern bikes have been helpful. Ergo allows the rider to always be on the optimal gear and make adjustments mid-climb that really may help. But also as importantly, the hand positions just feel better. And while some folks truely benefit from older low Q cranks, others really need the wider Q of modern examples. For many folks, modern saddles, and bars also help. And for others, clipless pedals are a godsend.
Finally, too many folks ride heavy steel frames that are way overbuilt - i.e they don't flex in a way that benefits the pedal stroke the way modern funky material frames do. If anyone tells you that it is OK that a frame is heavier than it needs to be since the slight weight penalty is trivial, simply has their head in the sand. The weight itself does not matter, it is what the weight does to the flex and ride characteristics of the frame that is most important. There are a bunch of steel frames being made out there that are trashing the reputation of the material. Folks ride them and get a poor impression of what steel can do. Matching a frame to a rider is hard work - it can't be too rigid, and it can't be too flexible - it must be just right!
And how do I back up this rant? Well I used to own a shop that sold vintage and modern steel bikes, and also modern machines from Merckx, Pinarello, and DeRosa. I used to try out everything - all the shop demo bikes were oddly my size, and both myself and staff would take them out and see how each behaved. What I discovered, was that on short rides that were steep climbs, the modern material bikes seemed to sometimes give me a slight edge (very slight), but on long rides (about 50 miles) with serious climbing I simply couldn't get the times to vary by much at all! It didn't matter if it was a Pinarello Prince or my Baylis or a Merckx Team SC. And the Ti bikes at the time I rode (litespeed labled Merckx) just plain stunk for me - and the Pinarello Opera was dreadful (wonderful frame but not to me)!
In my experiance, I find that good bikes actually seem to ride fairly similarly regardless of material, but in general I crave the feel of steel, and I have an especially hard time enjoying most bikes with Carbon forks. And a recent fairly modern Carbon frame I rode a few weeks ago? It rode quite nicely, pretty similar to a good steel bike, with a tad less interesting feedback.
The kicker is that I've found that my bikes (including older Steel) often come to life if I have the position dialed in like I do on a modern bike (for me that means ergo levers and modern wide Q cranks and clipless pedals). Typically, I do find that I prefer oversize tubing, but lately I've found skinny tube examples that I prefer to everything else - and no coincidence, a recent favorite has extreamely lightweight tubing!
As a final example, a local riding buddy has a few Paramounts and Hetchins and Merckx frames. For the past few years, he had a Merckx SC (Scandium) that he loved. I kept telling him to try a modern steel bike (probably oversize) with everything dialed in like on the modern bikes and he scoffed - told me he was in bliss. Then a funny thing happened - he bought one of the Merckx skinny tube 7/11 replica bikes recently offered, and he built it up with a modern ergo group. I swear, as does everyone in our group, that he became faster (certainly not slower at least!). He said he was really surprised. He did not feel any slower, but the gain in comfort was dramatic. Now the SC is apart and the group off that bike is on a second Merckx 7/11 frame he bought for back-up.
So what it all comes down to is the basics I think - it isn't the material, its the match of the specific frame to the rider. And it is also about the fit. Given those things, and good geometry of course, and you can have bikes or parts of new or old that behave wonderfully. But for my taste, I prefer the feel of steel.
Mike Kone in Boulder CO
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\r?\n> On 8/2/07, John Barron wrote:
\r?\n>
\r?\n> It would be romantic if old bikes were as fast as new bikes, wouldn't it? Well,
\r?\n> without getting too worked-up about this, I'll tell you all that my experience
\r?\n> shows that a $3,000 Heuer watch from the 60's doesn't keep as good a time as a
\r?\n> $9.99 quartz watch bought today; a $100,000 Ferarri from the 60's doesn't
\r?\n> perform, overall, as well as a $22,000 Camry bought
\r?\n> today.
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\r?\n> To which Mitch Harris replied:
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\r?\n> Faulty analogies, each.
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\r?\n> Mitch, please, you must be kidding us! If you sincerely believe that John is
\r?\n> mistaken, you've got to do much better in rebutting his comments than to say, in
\r?\n> effect, "you're wrong." John is a respected member of this list and has made a
\r?\n> contribution that is, if nothing else, provocative. If you feel that his
\r?\n> analogies are flawed, you are encouraged to provide a reasoned explanation, but
\r?\n> to just tell John that he's wrong come off as just a bit childish. Don't you
\r?\n> think?
\r?\n>
\r?\n> In my opinion, John's post was a breath of fresh air. We can turn CR into a
\r?\n> forum for discussing coefficients of drag, frictional losses, hysteresis, and
\r?\n> the laws of thermodynamics, and we likely would still be no closer to agreeing
\r?\n> on just how much faster bikes are today than they were in the on-topic
\r?\n> timeframe. But, to outright deny, as some list members appear to do, that
\r?\n> racing bikes today are faster than on-topic bikes is plain nuts. Is any of
\r?\n> "that stuff" necessary to enjoying the ride? Is the difference all that huge?
\r?\n> Is it worth the money? Would it be a real advantage for "my" style of riding?
\r?\n> Is a modern bike worth the lost charm? Our answers to these questions are what
\r?\n> make us, in the context of this list, who we are. I suppose even adhering to
\r?\n> the bizarre belief that an on-topic bike is just as fast as a modern wonderbike
\r?\n> is also what makes some of us who we are, but it's an attitude that sure is
\r?\n> tough for me to understand.
\r?\n>
\r?\n> Tom Dalton
\r?\n> Bethlehem, PA USA
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