Re: [CR]On Topic Campag Spindles are JIS ?

(Example: Production Builders:Peugeot:PY-10)

Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 22:44:34 -0800 (PST)
From: "Fred Rednor" <fred_rednor@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [CR]On Topic Campag Spindles are JIS ?
To: Classic Rendezvous <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
In-Reply-To: <005a01c84e92$919baeb0$4001a8c0@compaq>


David,
     I'm so glad you went to the trouble of taking those measurements. I actually did the same, yesterday, after being directed to the Phil Wood Web site. I measured something like 30 spindles (that's not an exageration) and my observations are in accord with yours - although my calipers are of the old fahioned type and not quite as accurate.
    I measured numerous spindles from Campagnolo, one from TA, a couple from Sugino Mighty Comp, and finally a couple from Nervar. These all had the same taper, with the ends being 12.7mm across the flats - with small differences due to production tolerances.
    You can probably tell from some of my CR list messages that I'm neurotically particular about bottom brackets, chain line, and all that sort of stuff. So I've always found the notes on the Phil Wood chart very puzzling, especially since some of the specification in their listing have implied contradictions with those notes.
     Best regards,
     Fred Rednor - Arlington, Virginia (USA)


--- David Snyder wrote:


> I think we should put out a warning about this.
>
> I remember seeing the chart you refer to, years ago!
>
> I still remember it because it's misleading. I measured the
> new and old
> Campy spindles at the time, and again today. It's very clear
> that the new
> and old Campy spindles are nearly same-sized, but are up to
> two tenths of a
> millimeter (.2mm) thinner between opposite flats than JIS
> spindles.
>
> The "modern" spindles I measured here are from the "Record"
> Carbon, 102mm
> and Veloce(?) 111mm cartridge units.
>
> I measure spindles' thickness 3mm from the end.
> This is an easy measurement to make, because common metric,
> digital calipers
> have jaws 3mm thick. One only has to position the spindle end
> flush with the
> "other" side of the jaws. This avoids measuring over any
> radiused edges.
> You can also lock the caliper's jaws, then transfer that
> measurement to
> another spindle so as to compare any actual differences in
> engagement depth
> as installed.
>
> JIS measures consistently around 12.87mm while Campy and
> Stronglight
> spindles measure from 12.67mm to 12.74mm at the location 3mm
> from the ends.
> There's always a bit of variance between spindles of
> different vintage, but
> it's a relatively slight +/- a few hundredths within this
> range, so ISO is
> always distinct from JIS.
> Note that Stronglight spindles and newer (cartridge) Campy
> spindles are at
> the small end of the range as compared to NR-era and C-Record
> spindles,
> while Suntour Superbe spindles measure smallest, as small as
> 12.60mm.
>
> The added thickness of JIS makes such spindles effectively
> ~5-6mm longer
> when mated to ISO [Stronglight, Campy (& clones)] cranks.
> That's ~3mm
> longer on each end.
>
> I would hate to buy a high-end bottom bracket and have to
> deal with
> unwanted, added "tread" and chainline due to uncompensated
> JIS dimensions.
>
> David Snyder
> Auburn, CA usa
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> Subject: [CR]On Topic Campag Spindles are JIS ?
>
>
> > Ahoy !
> >
> > Pursuant to recent query regarding On Topic Campag & Clone
> Cranks and
> > Modern BB's, several listers have pointed me toward Phil
> Wood.
> >
> > Crank Axle/Taper Compatibility Table on the Phil site seems
> to state
> > that '93 and earlier Campag tapers are JIS or, at least
> Phil is using
> > JIS tapers for this application. JIS on Campag doesn't
> align with the
> > majority CR opinion I received.
> >
> > Have I mis-read the table ? Can anyone offer some
> explanation, please ?
> >
> > Not being critical of Phil, I am just plain perlexed.
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> > Richard Cielec
> > Chicago, Illinois; U.S.A.

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