Regarding purported "team" bikes, I had the good fortune of acquiring a Puch-Eurotex-Campagnolo team bike from a shop owner in Lausanne (?) Switzerland a couple years ago. Not only did the bike have the rider's name inscribed on the top tube, but it was also stamped on the bottom bracket. In addition, the seller included a publicity photo of the team in their kits, w Stephan Mutter, the team leader, in the center of the photo with his bike, which was exactly like the one I bought. The bike was ridden in the '82 Tour, but its rider, Hans Kaenel, unfortunately was a DNF. It's a wonderful bike, and I always get a thrill to be on a bike that was actually ridden in the Tour.
On 28 Jan 2008 15:59:39 -0800, <classicrendezvous-request@bikelist.org>
wrote:
> Send Classicrendezvous mailing list submissions to
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>
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> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of Classicrendezvous digest..."
>
>
> CR
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Shipping woes: It's not just bike boxes that can go wrong
> (Tom Sanders)
> 2. Re: Lake Pepin 3 speed tour (Alan Lloyd)
> 3. Re: RE: "Real" Team Bikes (Freek Faro)
> 4. wanted and trade..
> 5. Lk Pepin 3 speed Tour in the USA
> 6. Re: RE: "Real" Team Bikes (Kurt Sperry)
> 7. Ye olde corner bike shoppe - or it pays to ask and not assume!
> (Dr. Paul Williams)
> 8. Re: Ye olde corner bike shoppe - or it pays to ask and not
> assume! (Steven Willis)
> 9. Re:1955 Cycling film (Nic Henderson)
> 10. forgotten sign-off: Ye olde corner bike shoppe!
> (Dr. Paul Williams)
> 11. Re: Bicycling mag story - re: used bike store in east village NY
> (coel canth)
> 12. Re: Questions about the Mavic 801/851 (SSC) rear derailleur
> (coel canth)
> 13. Re: Questions about the Mavic 801/851 (SSC) rear derailleur
> (Jeremy Rauch)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 15:27:16 -0500
> From: "Tom Sanders" <tesanders@comcast.net>
> To: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
> Subject: [CR]Shipping woes: It's not just bike boxes that can go wrong
> Message-ID: <00ca01c861ec$2cb2ca70$86185f50$@net>
> Content-Type: text/plain;charset="us-ascii"
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> Precedence: list
> Message: 1
>
> Today I got one of those incredibly tough padded envelopes from half way
> around the world. I noticed about 2" of the flap was open and the darn
> thing was empty.
>
> Gone were the Omas small Ti parts that had once been there. I will admit
> (If pushed a bit) that I am a bit of a weight weenie on a couple of my
> bikes
> and have been sneaking these little treasures onto them for years. These
> missing bits had been a fair amount of money. I know the seller is all
> right (great guy, I've dealt with him several times), it was just one of
> those unfortunate things, but DARN!
>
> Folks, do put an extra bit of strong tape over the flaps of any such
> envelope you send with parts in them.
>
> Tom Sanders
>
> Lansing, MI USA
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 12:38:46 -0800 (PST)
> From: Alan Lloyd <adl2k@yahoo.com>
> To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
> Subject: Re: [CR]Lake Pepin 3 speed tour
> Message-ID: <890538.17257.qm@web52603.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
> In-Reply-To: <MONKEYFOODNsq3nm7l200002d17@monkeyfood.nt.phred.org>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
> Precedence: list
> Message: 2
>
> > Lake Pepin 3 speed tour
>
> Err, that would be Lake Pepin in Minnisota!
>
> Alan Lloyd
> Schaumburg, Illinois, USA
>
> --- classicrendezvous-request@bikelist.org wrote:
>
> > Today's Topics:
> > 8. Lake Pepin 3 speed tour
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Subject: [CR]Lake Pepin 3 speed tour
> >
> > Message: 8
> >
> > Another must-do-someday:
> >
> > _http://www.bikebrothers.co.uk/evans_jonsharratt.htm_
> > (http://www.bikebrothers.co.uk/evans_jonsharratt.htm)
> >
> > _http://imageevent.com/abce/the2007lakepepin3speedtour_
> > (http://imageevent.com/abce/the2007lakepepin3speedtour)
> >
> > Note John Sharratt has pages for about 10 events there.
> >
> > Those Brits sure know how to have fun.
> >
> > Bob Freeman
> > Elliott Bay Bicycles
> > 2116 Western Ave
> > Seattle, WA 98121
> > 206-441-8144
> > Home of Davidson Handbuilt Bicycles
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 21:43:42 +0100
> From: "Freek Faro" <khun.freek@gmail.com>
> To: "David Ross" <dlr94306@yahoo.com>
> Cc: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
> Subject: Re: [CR]RE: "Real" Team Bikes
> Message-ID: <df813d780801281243y6879ac95j7713f5aebf8647d5@mail.gmail.com>
> In-Reply-To: <956793.2001.qm@web38103.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
> References: <956793.2001.qm@web38103.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> Precedence: list
> Message: 3
>
> I happen to own two 'real' teambikes: the Splendor-Hitachi (probably 1986)
> and the ADR-Bottecchia (1989), and its not easy to get some proof of
> provenance. I bought the bikes from people that didn't have a clue, but
> I'm
> pretty sure they are teambikes.
>
> I have send numerous emails to Belgian ex-pro riders, but so far no one
> has
> been helpful (either by not replying, or by plain not knowing anything
> about
> the bikes they rode). What next?? I really don't know at this point ...
>
> Freek Faro
> Rotterdam Netherlands
>
> http://www.wooljersey.com/
>
> http://www.wooljersey.com/
>
>
> 2008/1/28, David Ross <dlr94306@yahoo.com>:
> >
> > How about correspondence from the original builder, checking the frame's
> > serial number in his records? I lucked into a cosmetically wrecked but
> > structurally sound Yamaguchi track frame a couple of years ago. When I
> sent
> > it back to Koichi-san for refinishing, he identified it as the frame he
> > built for Brett Reagan, a member of the US Jr. Nat'l team and the 17/18
> > pursuit champion in 1989 (his teammates that year were Mike McKenna,
> George
> > Hincapie, JD Moffitt, Marty Nothstein and Jonas Carney). I understand
> that
> > Mr. Yamaguchi built all of the team's track frames in those days.
> >
> > The frame now sports the same graphics and decals that adorned it the
> day
> > it first left his shop. Too bad the original finish was gone, as well as
> the
> > parts. But at least I'm pretty sure about the provenance of the frame.
> >
> > Dave Ross
> > Portola Valley, CA USA
> >
> > Proof of true team bikes may be very difficult to obtain, since many
> > such bikes were made in multiple examples and, of course, in most cases,
> > the groups, saddles, etc., they sported were also usually made in
> > series. In fact, several bikes may have been used by a given rider for a
> > single event. Engraving, special decals, etc., may be helpful, but
> these
> > can be reproduced.
> > The first form of evidence of a true "team bike" would be congruence
> > with known photos or other established examples of this bike-lacking
> > this, proof would be more difficult.
> > This would be followed by some form of provenance, e.g. a bill of
> > sale, letter, etc.,with a hierarchy of such provenance extending from
> the
> > bike's rider to the manufacturer, seller, etc.
> > George Hollenberg MD
> > CT, USA
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 16:06:08 EST
> From: Rnitro1969@aol.com
> To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
> Subject: [CR]wanted and trade..
> Message-ID: <c21.16024527.34cf9dc0@aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> Precedence: list
> Message: 4
>
> greetings
>
> looking for a pair of nervex
> hubs large or small flange
> 32 or 36 hole.
>
> also would like to trade a atala frame
> looks like a 60's frame
> in 53cm c-t for a 54-55 cm c-t.
>
> thanks
> robbie fellows
> lakewood,ca.
>
>
>
> **************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape.
> http://body.aol.com/
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 16:38:00 EST
> From: RDF1249@aol.com
> To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
> Cc: nelsmiller@msn.com
> Cc: Joshlehman@aol.com
> Cc: pbandjane@bainbridge.net
> Cc: cnighbor@pacbell.net
> Cc: OROBOYZ@aol.com
> Cc: mpetry@bainbridge.net
> Subject: [CR]Lk Pepin 3 speed Tour in the USA
> Message-ID: <d3f.2171819d.34cfa538@aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> Precedence: list
> Message: 5
>
> Silly me. Here I had assumed this was a UK event, when in fact it
> happens
> in Wisconsin. Here is the tour website:
>
> http://www.3speedtour.com/
>
> All sold out for this year apparently. Looks like about the most fun one
> could have on an old bike.
>
> Bob Freeman
> Elliott Bay Bicycles
> 2116 Western Ave
> Seattle, WA 98121
> 206-441-8144
> Home of Davidson Handbuilt Bicycles
>
>
>
> **************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape.
> http://body.aol.com/
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 13:44:19 -0800
> From: "Kurt Sperry" <haxixe@gmail.com>
> Cc: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
> Subject: Re: [CR]RE: "Real" Team Bikes
> Message-ID: <75d04b480801281344s1731ec38we29c294d677f8a5b@mail.gmail.com>
> In-Reply-To: <df813d780801281243y6879ac95j7713f5aebf8647d5@mail.gmail.com>
> References: <956793.2001.qm@web38103.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
> <df813d780801281243y6879ac95j7713f5aebf8647d5@mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> Precedence: list
> Reply-To: haxixe@gmail.com
> Message: 6
>
> It seems obvious that 20 years on even most real team bikes will
> probably never have sufficient provenance to be reliably identified as
> such. The good news is that this means they should be available to
> people at a fraction of what they would cost had they been
> definitively traceable to their history and will thus be ridden and
> enjoyed rather than being horded as investments.
>
> It ain't all bad is it?
>
> Kurt Sperry
> Bellingham WA
> USA
>
> On Jan 28, 2008 12:43 PM, Freek Faro <khun.freek@gmail.com> wrote:
> > I happen to own two 'real' teambikes: the Splendor-Hitachi (probably
> 1986)
> > and the ADR-Bottecchia (1989), and its not easy to get some proof of
> > provenance. I bought the bikes from people that didn't have a clue, but
> I'm
> > pretty sure they are teambikes.
> >
> > I have send numerous emails to Belgian ex-pro riders, but so far no one
> has
> > been helpful (either by not replying, or by plain not knowing anything
> about
> > the bikes they rode). What next?? I really don't know at this point ...
> >
> > Freek Faro
> > Rotterdam Netherlands
> >
> > http://www.wooljersey.com/
> >
> > http://www.wooljersey.com/
> >
> >
> > 2008/1/28, David Ross <dlr94306@yahoo.com>:
> >
> > >
> > > How about correspondence from the original builder, checking the
> frame's
> > > serial number in his records? I lucked into a cosmetically wrecked but
> > > structurally sound Yamaguchi track frame a couple of years ago. When I
> sent
> > > it back to Koichi-san for refinishing, he identified it as the frame
> he
> > > built for Brett Reagan, a member of the US Jr. Nat'l team and the
> 17/18
> > > pursuit champion in 1989 (his teammates that year were Mike McKenna,
> George
> > > Hincapie, JD Moffitt, Marty Nothstein and Jonas Carney). I understand
> that
> > > Mr. Yamaguchi built all of the team's track frames in those days.
> > >
> > > The frame now sports the same graphics and decals that adorned it the
> day
> > > it first left his shop. Too bad the original finish was gone, as well
> as the
> > > parts. But at least I'm pretty sure about the provenance of the frame.
> > >
> > > Dave Ross
> > > Portola Valley, CA USA
> > >
> > > Proof of true team bikes may be very difficult to obtain, since many
> > > such bikes were made in multiple examples and, of course, in most
> cases,
> > > the groups, saddles, etc., they sported were also usually made in
> > > series. In fact, several bikes may have been used by a given rider for
> a
> > > single event. Engraving, special decals, etc., may be helpful, but
> these
> > > can be reproduced.
> > > The first form of evidence of a true "team bike" would be congruence
> > > with known photos or other established examples of this bike-lacking
> > > this, proof would be more difficult.
> > > This would be followed by some form of provenance, e.g. a bill of
> > > sale, letter, etc.,with a hierarchy of such provenance extending from
> the
> > > bike's rider to the manufacturer, seller, etc.
> > > George Hollenberg MD
> > > CT, USA
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> >
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 16:51:41 -0500
> From: "Dr. Paul Williams" <castell5@sympatico.ca>
> To: "Classic Rendezvous" <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
> Subject: [CR]Ye olde corner bike shoppe - or it pays to ask and not
> assume!
> Message-ID: <012401c861f7$f7a08e10$0300a8c0@ourlaptop>
> Content-Type: text/plain;charset="iso-8859-1"
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Precedence: list
> Message: 7
>
> In praise of ye olde corner bike shoppe - this afternoon, on realising
> that I needed some 1/8" bearings for my latest project, I phoned a local
> bike shop which has been in business for over 60 years. My opening line
> was "this may be a strange request, but I need some loose 1/8"
> bearings!" The chap at the other end said "we have loose bearings in all
> sorts of sizes at a dime a piece - and why is that a strange request?"
> My response was that I have become accustomed to higher end shops being
> more inclined to stock sealed units or bearings in clips. Moreover, I
> didn't really think that anyone would be doing repairs with smaller
> bearings these days.
>
> The shop is a couple of blocks from my daughter's school and I have only
> been in a couple of times before. It is a "family" oriented place which
> specialises in children's bikes, repro cruisers, etc. There is nothing
> in the way of high end or race-related bikes or parts. But they did have
> loose bearings (and it turns out another size of bearing which I had
> sent away for!). During my visit, I talked to the owners and it appears
> that they also still stock a range of tyre and tube sizes - including 26
> x 1-1/4" tyres!! And I had sent away for those too! One owner suggested
> that they have quite the stock of unusual things which they pick up from
> clearances and other types of sales. On leaving he said to me, with a
> slight smile, "you don't have to order everything online you know!"
>
> I never thought to ask locally and I guess several expressions come into
> play here - don't judge a book by its cover, it always pays to ask and
> don't assume anything! I will be going back there again - even with
> several higher end stores nearby.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 16:59:10 -0500
> From: "Steven Willis" <smwillis@verizon.net>
> To: "Dr. Paul Williams" <castell5@sympatico.ca>,
> "Classic Rendezvous" <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
> Subject: Re: [CR]Ye olde corner bike shoppe - or it pays to ask and not
> assume!
> Message-ID: <015301c861f9$03643930$2c01a8c0@bike1>
> References: <012401c861f7$f7a08e10$0300a8c0@ourlaptop>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1;
> reply-type=original
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> Precedence: list
> Message: 8
>
> Very nice to hear that story.
> Steven Willis
> The Bike Stand
> 1778 East Second Street
> Scotch Plains NJ 07076
> 908-322-3330
> http://www.thebikestand.com
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Dr. Paul Williams" <castell5@sympatico.ca>
> To: "Classic Rendezvous" <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
> Sent: Monday, January 28, 2008 4:51 PM
> Subject: [CR]Ye olde corner bike shoppe - or it pays to ask and not
> assume!
>
>
> > In praise of ye olde corner bike shoppe - this afternoon, on realising
> > that I needed some 1/8" bearings for my latest project, I phoned a local
> > bike shop which has been in business for over 60 years. My opening line
> > was "this may be a strange request, but I need some loose 1/8"
> > bearings!" The chap at the other end said "we have loose bearings in all
> > sorts of sizes at a dime a piece - and why is that a strange request?"
> > My response was that I have become accustomed to higher end shops being
> > more inclined to stock sealed units or bearings in clips. Moreover, I
> > didn't really think that anyone would be doing repairs with smaller
> > bearings these days.
> >
> > The shop is a couple of blocks from my daughter's school and I have only
> > been in a couple of times before. It is a "family" oriented place which
> > specialises in children's bikes, repro cruisers, etc. There is nothing
> > in the way of high end or race-related bikes or parts. But they did have
> > loose bearings (and it turns out another size of bearing which I had
> > sent away for!). During my visit, I talked to the owners and it appears
> > that they also still stock a range of tyre and tube sizes - including 26
> > x 1-1/4" tyres!! And I had sent away for those too! One owner suggested
> > that they have quite the stock of unusual things which they pick up from
> > clearances and other types of sales. On leaving he said to me, with a
> > slight smile, "you don't have to order everything online you know!"
> >
> > I never thought to ask locally and I guess several expressions come into
> > play here - don't judge a book by its cover, it always pays to ask and
> > don't assume anything! I will be going back there again - even with
> > several higher end stores nearby.
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 22:01:29 -0000
> From: "Nic Henderson" <nic.henderson@btinternet.com>
> To: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
> Subject: [CR]Re:1955 Cycling film
> Message-ID: <005a01c861f9$55ef5b80$4101a8c0@user739ccd71cc>
> Content-Type: text/plain;charset="iso-8859-1"
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Precedence: list
> Message: 9
>
>
> Hi all - The stills are there but also video as well on a 'secret' page
> (psst - don't tell anyone), it's captured straight from DVD and is in
> mpg format and plays great in full screen mode (on my computer at
> least!). Those with the knowledge should be able to re-burn it into a
> DVD.?? The Jack Taylor Bike Brothers video is there as well.
>
> Cyclist Special http://www.bikebrothers.co.uk/
> The Bike Brothers (Taylor Brothers)
> http://www.bikebrothers.co.uk/
>
> Nic Henderson
> Croesyceiliog
> UK
>
>
> neat, thanks robert. nic and andy (the bikebrothers) have had stills
> and a
> bit of narrative for a while at:
> http://www.bikebrothers.co.uk/
> nice to actually see it is real (reel) time !
> r clair
> alexandria, va
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <RDF1249@aol.com>
> To: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
> Sent: Monday, January 28, 2008 1:22 AM
> Subject: [CR]1955 Cycling film
>
>
> > If you haven't seen it, here is a great film made by British Rail in
> 1955,
> > of
> > an excursion from London to Rugby with a bike ride through
> Warwickshire,
> > Leicestershire, and back. In two parts.
> > http://www.youtube.com/
> Apologies if
> > this has been mentioned before.
> >
> > Bob Freeman
> > Elliott Bay Bicycles
> > 2116 Western Ave
> > Seattle, WA 98121
> > 206-441-8144
> > Home of Davidson Handbuilt Bicycles
> >
> >
> >
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 17:18:18 -0500
> From: "Dr. Paul Williams" <castell5@sympatico.ca>
> To: "Classic Rendezvous" <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
> Subject: [CR]forgotten sign-off: Ye olde corner bike shoppe!
> Message-ID: <013601c861fb$b05ed670$0300a8c0@ourlaptop>
> Content-Type: text/plain;charset="iso-8859-1"
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Precedence: list
> Message: 10
>
> Apologies! Forgotten sign-off.
>
> Paul Williams,
> Ottawa, ON Canada
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 17:28:37 -0500
> From: "coel canth" <coelcanth@gmail.com>
> To: "James Swan" <jswan@optonline.net>
> Cc: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
> Cc: Bianca Pratorius <biankita@comcast.net>
> Subject: Re: [CR]Bicycling mag story - re: used bike store in east village
> NY
> Message-ID: <44818cc20801281428q3caec77aj30f283fda5eefa86@mail.gmail.com>
> In-Reply-To: <F6EAC101-DF07-4F41-83F4-FD6C3B6266B2@optonline.net>
> References: <ca6bc9bf6043a1e7716e5e50b51d1094@comcast.net>
> <44818cc20801272107h7f08256qc04375ddb6085b62@mail.gmail.com>
> <F6EAC101-DF07-4F41-83F4-FD6C3B6266B2@optonline.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> Precedence: list
> Message: 11
>
> bikedudes, i assure you; Emey is still around.. !.
> he, or his namesake, (or his ghost) is currently the proprietor of a shop
> on
> east sixth street in da EV.
> the Pile is relocated and smaller, but still there.
> his ancient cast iron truing stand is still there.
> the two Frejus' are there too..
> i've touched them and felt their cold steel, and it was not ghostly.
>
> Andrei Padlowski
> currently in
> Glen Ridge, NJ
> yet often in
> New York, NY
>
> ps.: the shop Barry is referring to is called 'Continuum' and is also a
> good
> candidate for mysterious EV shop
>
> On Jan 28, 2008 7:48 AM, James Swan <jswan@optonline.net> wrote:
>
> > I didn't read the article either and I don't know if they were taking
> > about Emey's. I just wanted to report that Emey's, or at least Emey has
> been
> > gone for several years now. I think that someone else might be operating
> a
> > bike shop at that location now, but the hay-stack of vintage iron has
> been
> > dispersed to the four winds.
> > Emey's was the original meeting place for the Brooklyn Velodrome Vintage
> > Wheelman. Lead by the Omnipotent Despot, John Pergolizzi, we used to
> climb
> > over the afore mentioned pile of vintage bikes and huddle in Emey's
> phone
> > booth sized back room that was illuminated by a single bare light bulb
> > hanging from a wire. Crammed in there, sitting on miscellaneous old
> boxes,
> > we would tell "tales of the big ring" while sharing bottles of Chianti
> that
> > we opened with the aid of a Campagnolo cork screw. After a couple hours
> of
> > that we would pass the hat to pay our tribute to Emey and stagger off to
> > John's Pizzeria... Last I heard Emey was on the lamb. Word was that the
> Feds
> > were after him.
> >
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 18:25:22 -0500
> From: "coel canth" <coelcanth@gmail.com>
> To: "Adam Hammond" <anhammond@gmail.com>
> Cc: classic rendezvous <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
> Subject: Re: [CR]Questions about the Mavic 801/851 (SSC) rear derailleur
> Message-ID: <44818cc20801281525m6cb97e38vb813b26b67035cd1@mail.gmail.com>
> In-Reply-To: <D870529B-19DE-4EDD-A391-9D3819FF1B91@gmail.com>
> References: <D870529B-19DE-4EDD-A391-9D3819FF1B91@gmail.com>
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>
> if I'm not mistaken, the 801 and 851 derailleurs are slightly different
> designs,,
> the 801 basically being a copy of the Nuovo Record, with pivot located
> almost centrally between the two pulleys.
> the 851 has a pivot located more in line with the upper pulley, similar to
> the later Campy Super Record mechanism.. Neither of these has a sprung
> upper
> pivot and probably operate just like the models that inspired them. I'm
> not
> really sure why they didn't incorporate Simplex's innovation.. perhaps it
> was patented and defended well ? maybe some national loyalty came into
> play... ?
>
> if you'd like better performance maybe you'd be interested in the (i
> guess)
> off-topic Mavic 840 ? it has a slant parallelogram design and a sprung
> upper pivot, and is index compatible too..
> it also came in a long cage version. there's one on ebay right now, item
> no.
> 270207378104.
>
> http://ebay.com/
>
> i've never used any of these, so i can't say how well any work
>
> andrei padlowski
> glen ridge, NJ
>
> On Jan 28, 2008 9:29 AM, Adam Hammond <anhammond@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Dear List,
> >
> > I have developed a bad habit of starting threads that inadvertently
> > begin off-topic, and then head even farther afield. I must say, I'm
> > foggy on the exact date of manufacture of these derailleurs. So my
> > apologies in advance if I've done it again.
> >
> > I purchased one of these derailleurs on eBay a few months ago. In the
> > interim, I've joined the CR list, read every back issue of BQ, and
> > generally become a more informed person. But -- happily -- the more
> > one learns about bicycles, the more one wants to know, and so I have
> > developed some questions about my derailleur.
> >
> > First: does it, like the Simplex SLJ, have a spring in the upper
> > pivot? I bought this thinking it would go on my yet-to-be-built Velo
> > Orange randonneur, so it's not yet in use. But I have bolted it onto
> > one of my other bikes, and it doesn't seem have an upper-pivot spring.
> > It behaves like my NR derailleur. But it would seem odd for it not to
> > incorporate this innovation since these seem to have been manufactured
> > at least into the late 1980s, and since, being French, Mavic certainly
> > would have been very familiar with the SLJ. (At the very least, Greg
> > LeMond would have told them about it, I suspect!) Although, if this
> > was made strictly for closely-spaced racing freewheels, perhaps the
> > extra chain up-take wouldn't have been important.
> >
> > Second (and related): the washers that my 801 came with seem different
> > from those that come with most others. I've been watching several
> > subsequent eBay auctions, and most washers (when included at all) have
> > two tabs to support the sides of the derailleur body around the pivot.
> > Mine have no such tabs. Does it seem not to have "spring action" in
> > the upper pivot because I have the wrong washer?
> >
> > My derailleur and its washers are photographed here,
> >
> > http://www.flickr.com/
> >
> > And the seemingly proper washer is photographed on the listing for
> > eBay item 190190848318
> >
> > I'm also curious in general about this derailleur. It seems to have a
> > good reputation, but there isn't very much written about it. How
> > similar is it to the SLJ? Or is it derived from the SR derailleur? Or
> > does it have an entirely independent existence?!
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Adam Hammond
> > Toronto, Ontario, Canada
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 18:58:27 -0500
> From: Jeremy Rauch <classic2@cadre.org>
> To: Classic Rendezvous <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
> Subject: Re: [CR]Questions about the Mavic 801/851 (SSC) rear derailleur
> Message-ID: <6A463161-416F-42BE-83EB-5277FE78D243@cadre.org>
> In-Reply-To: <44818cc20801281525m6cb97e38vb813b26b67035cd1@mail.gmail.com>
> References: <D870529B-19DE-4EDD-A391-9D3819FF1B91@gmail.com>
> <44818cc20801281525m6cb97e38vb813b26b67035cd1@mail.gmail.com>
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>
> The 851 and 801 are identical -- the only part numbers that differ are
> those of the 2 parallelogram arms. The 851 arms are anodized, while
> the 801's are not.
>
> For the OP: the stop you have is probably not original -- thats the
> stop issued with the 800 derailleur. The 801 and 851 would have the
> pressed steel version. However, the (basic) design of the 800, 801
> and the 851 is the same, so the stop you have should work correctly.
>
> From what I can tell, the 800/801/851 designed lasted from
> 1978-1989. Quite the run, given what else was available.
>
> The 840 is a great, Shimano-geometry compatible derailleur, thats a
> good 7 years after the list cutoff date, so I'll say no more -- but I
> will HIGHLY recommend Chuck Schmidt's Mavic catalog reprints.
> Indispensable resource if you're a Mavic fan.
>
> Jeremy Rauch
> Brooklyn, NY
>
>
> On Jan 28, 2008, at 6:25 PM, coel canth wrote:
>
> > if I'm not mistaken, the 801 and 851 derailleurs are slightly
> > different
> > designs,,
> > the 801 basically being a copy of the Nuovo Record, with pivot located
> > almost centrally between the two pulleys.
> > the 851 has a pivot located more in line with the upper pulley,
> > similar to
> > the later Campy Super Record mechanism.. Neither of these has a
> > sprung upper
> > pivot and probably operate just like the models that inspired them.
> > I'm not
> > really sure why they didn't incorporate Simplex's innovation..
> > perhaps it
> > was patented and defended well ? maybe some national loyalty came
> > into
> > play... ?
> >
> > if you'd like better performance maybe you'd be interested in the (i
> > guess)
> > off-topic Mavic 840 ? it has a slant parallelogram design and a
> > sprung
> > upper pivot, and is index compatible too..
> > it also came in a long cage version. there's one on ebay right now,
> > item no.
> > 270207378104.
> >
> > http://ebay.com/
> >
> > i've never used any of these, so i can't say how well any work
> >
> > andrei padlowski
> > glen ridge, NJ
> >
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
> End of Classicrendezvous Digest, Vol 61, Issue 92
> *************************************************