Zen of collecting, was [CR]Price check requested

(Example: History)

Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2008 21:17:15 -0400
From: "Harvey Sachs" <hmsachs@verizon.net>
Subject: Zen of collecting, was [CR]Price check requested
To: tesanders@comcast.net, Classic Rendezvous <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>


I liked Tom Sanders's post (below), but would offer a slightly different perspective. To me, the first question I ask is "why do I want it?" before I even ask "what is it worth?".

The core of my small collection is bikes that I really wanted. I tend to keep these for decades - the '38 Paramount, 65 Paramount and S.O.'s SuperVitus "Orphelin" have been with us since the mid-1970s.

As I got further into it, I added bikes in three categories: Those that really represented something that I had wanted for a long time, such as a Cinelli and a Hetchins. If they fit right and ride sweet, they're "permanent". Yes, I sold my first Cinelli - but only after finding one that fitted better and occupies the same "niche" in my emotions. Something I really wanted as a starving grad student and couldn't afford. For these bikes, the purchase price just needs to feel like a reasonable value. Whether they appreciate much or not may only be discovered by my survivors. The chase is not the thing, but filling the niche and riding the bike are what I love. Whether Cinelli or Sears Ted Williams Sport Special, a clone of my first 10-speed. That's my style, but I also value those for whom the chase for the ultimate collectible is part of the fun.

The second category I'd call "targets of opportunity." These are always things that are new to me, things I had not lusted for, but available at such a reasonable price that I'm willing to take a chance that I'll fall in love with them. That has included a swap meet Medici (marginally small, but just beautiful), and a Austro-Daimler Vent Noir. I sold the Medici fairly soon, because it was just too small to be comfortable, but still have the A-D. It went to L'Eroica last year (it was the least valuable, than thus dispensible if the airline beat it up). I bought it for the finish, and for the first gen DuraAce group, which I'd never owned (Psst: That D-A stuff feels much better in action than the Campag of the time). The DuraAce AX Aero Univega I got from Mark Poore is in that category: really novel parts, and a nice finish. I may sell it, because I have not yet "bonded" with it enough to put it together.

Finally, there are things I've bought knowing that it was unlikely that I'd fall in love, but I just had to keep them in circulation. I might even sell for more than I paid. There was a Raleigh Lenton Clubman in wonderful condition, but a truly awful archaic ride (to me). So, I passed it along to another CR member, at my cost. A 3-Rensho frame that a buddy thought was damaged, but which appealed mightily to another CR member.

Another consideration: When a bike enters the collection, it gets ridden. That means that I don't want to have perfect finishes. My bikes look ridden, because they are, and they are transported, too. I think, but couldn't prove, that the market for these is much larger than for the absolute NOS and perfect stuff, and probably much less volatile. In dollars, if not in percentages. I love to look at the $3000 bikes, but I prefer to have the lower-risk versions of the same bikes that are less than half the price.

Over the decades, this conservative path has made me comfortable. It brings pleasure, lovely bikes and parts, and low risk if I do have to sell. But, there are lots of other approaches that are valid. Hilary Stone must pay much closer attention to prices than I do, but he's doing us a service by saving great stuff from the tip (dumpster), and I value that, too. As long as folks are honest and share their hard-won insights, let a thousand approaches flower. It's a good community.

harvey sachs mcLean va. usa

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ The price that one can expect to pay for an item is a legitimate concern and I'd like to suggest to folks seeking such information to check the archives and see which members seem to post about the brand or type of item one is concerned about. Then drop a line, off list, to those members and see if they will give you the benefit of their experience. Newcomers will usually be surprised by the generosity of CR members in sharing their experiences.

That way we can avoid the types of trolling or other sales practices that Dale has wisely set up the rules to avoid, and still usually get a pretty good idea of what one might expect to buy or sell an item of interest for.

Usually this occurs with newer members, as us old timers have encountered it so often.it is also a good way to start forming some networks of folks with similar interests on the list. Most new folks are surprised to learn how much off list communication there is between many of us with similar interests.

Tom Sanders

Lansing, Michigan USA