I am really new to this idea of bicycles as collectibles, museum artifact s and show items. For most of my life, functionality was the most import ant aspect any bike I owned could possess. Of course, functionality ofte n went hand in hand with aesthetic appeal. Consequently, I can only offe r a novice's opinion; and I don't want to seem presumptuous. In my opini on, however, the most important aspect of museum pieces is provenance. A sketch by Da Vinci is important, no matter its state of completion or condition. It seems to me that there exists such a category for bicycles. That might include Coppi's training wheels or the bike he used in a partic ular Tour.
Then there are the bicycles that, it seems to me in my brief time here, are ridden frequently, if not regularly; that may have no real --prova ble-- historical significance. Yet, they are beautiful as works of art. This, it seems, is the essential core of the debate. Even now, to u se an easy example from the art world, there are those who despise the "r estored" Cistine Chapel, though, in fact, the restoration is arguably more original.
In the world of collectible automobiles, in most cases, finding old ite ms is done almost solely with a view toward restoration. It may be that these OT bicycles are perfectly capable of performing at an equivalent level to their modern equivalents that, unless they are mechan ically compromised, there is less need of restoration to achieve an "orig inal" level of function.
I can't be sure, but there are probably many more "rare" bicycles than au tomobiles.
Steve James Bx, NY
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2008 20:02:49 +0000From: gholl@optonline.netSubject: Re: RE: [CR]Comment on Cirque bike classification: "original" v. "restored"To: sj52@hotmail.comCC: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
Stephan:
You're right to inquire. In fact these terms have subtle semantic differenc
es. A lot of undefined, or poorly defined jargon is applied to vintage bi
kes, e.g. "NOS", and even more amusing the latest, currently applied
to a bike on eBay, "unadulterated"!
Sooner or later, the vintage bike community, especially the movers, s
hakers, and vintage bike exhibition judges, will have to come to a cons
ensus regarding a system of classification of bike condition and authentici
ty. This is most important when vintage bikes are exhibited to the public
and when a bike is sold.
The condition and authenticity of most vintage bikes is not impossible to
ascertain-it may be difficult at times, but a great reservoir of honest t
alent is available.
I believe that bikes shown at exhibition should be honestly represented,
in writing, by the exhibitor, listing any and all modifications made to
the bike, and, then all bikes should be vetted by a committee before t
hey are shown to the public. An honest seller should do the same.
It's a question of honesty and of the integrity of the hobby.
I think a lot of input from the large number of knowledgeable collectors he
re on CR is needed on this critical topic.
George
George Hollenberg, MD----- Original Message -----From: Stephen James Date
: Thursday, July 3, 2008 2:57 pmSubject: RE: [CR]Comment on Cirque bike
classification: "original" v. "restored"To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
> > I am curious why the distinction is between "original" and > "restored"
, ra> ther than "restored" and "unrestored", for example.> > What, in
cidentally, would be the groups' idea of criteria for > restoration. Is r
epainting too much?> > Steve James> Bx., NY> From: cnighbor1@comcast.net>
To: > classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2008 11:38:32 ->
0700> Subject: [CR]Comment on Cirque bik> e classification: "original" v. "
restored"> > To make judging > easier for Ci> rque bike classification: "or
iginal" vs.. > "restored" why not > do this, h> ave entries state which c
lass they are > completing in. Than for > original c> lassification entries
have owner on a > standard Cirque provided > form list > the original part
s and frame. > Allowing for comments to be > included. Than > judge it usin
g form checking > to see if it meets form after > first reviewin> g form fo
r correctness. For > restored judge it is has it is > right now.> Ju> st a
thought> > Charles Nighbor> Walnut Creek, CA> PS I always > when enter> i
ng a bicycle judging contest include a water > bottle with > fresh flowers
i> n it. And match or contrast flower color to > bicycle color. > Judges ca
n't r> esist giving a few more points.> > > > --- StripMime Report -- > pro
cessed MI> ME parts ---> multipart/alternative> text/plain (text body -- >
kept)> text/h> tml> ---> _______________________________________________> >
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