I probably should have mention this method in my other post. IF it is a fixed cup that you are trying to remove, and IF it is a campy, sugino, shimano, or the like, and it has the two large flats on the fixed cup, and IF you have the sugino or campy fixed cup tool, you can try this. In conjunction with the Sheldon tool, you place the fixed cup tool over the fixed cup, sandwich it in with the large washer, and then the nut, and use a rubber mallet to strike the fixed cup tool to dislodge the cup. Just make sure that you are using the best side of the tool that you have against the frame, and you get the bolt and nut very tight. I have used this method on fixed cups that were on bikes that lived by the ocean, and were completely rusted in the frame, and successfully extracted them. If you are using a Park repair stand to hold the frame, or a clone of such, make sure that you grab the frame as close as possible to the bottom bracket as you can get. Roger MacPhail, Park City, Utah, USA