Ah, there is a missing point in the discussion. I think for many folks, even the well-to-do, there are limits to how much one will spend on one purchase. Look, the whole US practically lives on credit and month-to-month payments. So one month, or one year, you buy a frame. Then the crank, then the rest. So on an Herse, you enter the game for perhaps just a few thousand, then you upgrade the bits by a thousand here or there over the years. The same story repeats itself for bikes worth a thousand in total. First the $300 frame, then the brakes....
Yes, in most cases it is much cheaper to buy the whole deal right away. But not everyone can do that. For the wealthy, there really is no excuse. But for most folks, it is the reality of life. How many folks carry a balance on their credit card? Totally irrational, but extreamely common.
Mike Kone in Boulder CO USA - Rene Herse Bicycles Inc. / Boulder Bicycle / Housingmetrics Inc.
> Actually, I think collectibles like bikes and antique cars, which have a lo
\r?\n> t of components, will always sell for less than the sum of their parts.
\r?\n> Just basic psychology. If a collector has a special bike lacking only
\r?\n> the correct crank, or toeclips, or bar plugs, he may be willing to pay what
\r?\n> seems a very high price for one component to complete a bike worth several
\r?\n> thousand dollars. If he did that with every component the total would f
\r?\n> ar exceed the value of the complete bike, but th point is, the collector ty
\r?\n> pically only needs one or a few parts to complete the project, which is why
\r?\n> he will pay a big price. This inevitably leads to an incentive to p
\r?\n> art out bikes, but I don't know how you avoid that.
\r?\n>
\r?\n> Actually, while eBay has given the Japanese colectors better access to p
\r?\n> arts in Europe and America, I believe on average it has reduced the prices
\r?\n> of classic bike parts. Just before the advent of eBay and popolarization
\r?\n> of the internet, a small number of US sellers had nearly cornered the mark
\r?\n> et in some classic bike parts. Sometimes, when one needed a particular b
\r?\n> it to complete a project, there was only one example available at the time,
\r?\n> and one either paid the price the seller asked or did not complete the pro
\r?\n> ject. Not that the sellers were greedy or bad guys - most were actually
\r?\n> nice guys and many parts were reasonable, but if you have only one of an it
\r?\n> em, and no one else has it, you are probably not going to sell it cheap.
\r?\n> But with eBay almost anyone it the world with classic parts can sell to an
\r?\n> yone else in the world relatively conveniently. This has pulled into the
\r?\n> market huge numbers of components that previously would have continued
\r?\n> gathering dust in attics and garages because their owners did not think th
\r?\n> ere was a market for them, or could not conveniently access that market.
\r?\n> Overall, I think the increase in supply has exceeded the increase in deman
\r?\n> d from places like Japan.
\r?\n>
\r?\n> Regards,
\r?\n>
\r?\n> Jerry Moos
\r?\n> Big Spring, Texas, USA
\r?\n>
\r?\n>
\r?\n> --- On Thu, 10/9/08, Michael Schmidt wrote:
\r?\n>
\r?\n> From: Michael Schmidt
\r?\n> Subject: Re: [CR]Rene Herse cranks price
\r?\n> To: "Alex March" , "Untitled" > ist.org>
\r?\n> Date: Thursday, October 9, 2008, 5:11 AM
\r?\n>
\r?\n> Alex,
\r?\n>
\r?\n> The Japanese dictate the current market price (atmo) for French high end
\r?\n> bikes so I would say the answer lay within the land of the rising sun.
\r?\n>
\r?\n> I agree that the original bike is more valuable than a cobbled together
\r?\n> Herse or Singer. But because the frames are so rare, buyers are primarily
\r?\n> looking at size, year and model as opposed to originality.
\r?\n>
\r?\n>
\r?\n> Mike Schmidt
\r?\n> Stirling, NJ
\r?\n> USA
\r?\n>
\r?\n>
\r?\n>
\r?\n>
\r?\n> On 10/9/08 3:49 AM, "alex m" wrote:
\r?\n>
\r?\n> > This price is not really surprising, many Rene Herse bikes were modernize
\r?\n> d
\r?\n> > over the years and ended up with just the frame original, so there are
\r?\n> more
\r?\n> > incomplete bikes out there than there are parts. And Rene Herse parts
\r?\n> were
\r?\n> > specific to Rene Herse bicycles, so there is no "exterior"
\r?\n> supply of parts
\r?\n> > from lesser bikes, as is the case for Cinelli, Masi, Colnago, or other
\r?\n> con
\r?\n> > structeur bikes who used Mafac or Stronglight.
\r?\n> >
\r?\n> > What is surprising and to me illogical and beyond my understanding, is
\r?\n> that
\r?\n> > the price of a complete and original top of the range bikes isn't
\r?\n> higher :
\r?\n> > how can you possibly justify the fact that a complete and original bike
\r?\n> wi
\r?\n> > ll almost systematically sell for less (sometimes a lot less) than the su
\r?\n> m
\r?\n> > of its parts and the frame sold separately? A bike (re)made up from a sum
\r?\n> o
\r?\n> > f parts, even correct (and how can you know for sure what the bike was
\r?\n> orig
\r?\n> > inally anyway in the case of a handbuilt where no two bikes were
\r?\n> identical?
\r?\n> > ), is not as good as the bike with its own parts as it left the
\r?\n> workshop...
\r?\n> >
\r?\n> > Maybe one day the market will come to its senses? But how many lovely
\r?\n> bikes
\r?\n> > will have been taken apart in the meantime?
\r?\n> >
\r?\n> > Alexander March
\r?\n> > Bordeaux
\r?\n> > France=0A=0A=0A