RE: [CR]Ethical question as applies to Vintage bike parts transactions...

(Example: Production Builders:Teledyne)

From: "R.S. Broderick" <rsb000@hotmail.com>
To: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
Subject: RE: [CR]Ethical question as applies to Vintage bike parts transactions...
Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 13:45:52 -0600
thread-index: Acle1e1b25xICeTUREaKK9Vt7ZuLGgAAc6+w
In-Reply-To: <8CB2CECF62CC67C-9B0-D09@WEBMAIL-MZ04.sysops.aol.com>
cc: oroboyz@aol.com

Dale,

In the particular circumstance you describe, I am inclined to believe that the person who sent along a "cash" payment did not live up to their implied end of the bargain to provide SECURE payment for the goods or services in question. I always state right up front that sending "cash" is something done at your own risk as I will NOT assume any responsibility for someone else's roll of the dice, so to speak. Moreover, were I on the other end of the transaction and considering (...for whatever unknown reason) sending "cash" of any consequence via traditional post to another party, I would like to think that I would be savvy enough to forward it along using Registered Mail service or the like with a Return Receipt Requested and/or Delivery Confirmation.

Perhaps it is just that "time of the season", but to me your question begs contemplation and consideration on that of a greater perspective such as how we deal with fellow List members when transacting an exchange.

Several years ago, I responded to a "For Sale" offer posted to the CR List by a member I believe to be held in high esteem but with whom I had no previous personal dealings. I chose to remit payment via PayPal and the other party promptly posted the small item I sought in a simple envelope. Upon its receipt, I immediately noticed a hole in one of its corners along with the fact that said envelope contained absolutely nothing. I contacted the other party to explain that while I appreciated their timely attentions, the merchandise in question had apparently "escaped" en route - to which he immediately responded, "I would be happy to send another one along to you - just pay for a second one". I was not amused.

Contrast this to an exchange I had with Alexander March a year or so later wherein I won at auction on eBay a pair of NOS rims, promptly paid via PayPal, and then waited, and waited, and waited in vain for their arrival. I eventually contacted the seller to apprise him of the situation before I lost my option of recourse through eBay / PayPal, and after a few email exchanges, we brokered the following arrangement. Mr. March offered to refund my monies in full with the understanding that should the rims eventually make their way to my humble abode, I would immediately thereafter re-submit payment as originally agreed. On the other hand, should the rims be returned to him, he would advise me of the fact and solicit re-payment prior to their subsequent re-shipment. But there was one other stipulation made at my suggestion - and this is the most important point I would like to make. Should the rims have NOT appeared at either end after an agreed period time, I would remit an amount of monies equal to half the original purchase price including shipping so that both he and I might share the financial "loss" equally. To me, this seemed to be a "fair and equitable" arrangement inasmuch as I felt quite confident that Mr. March had no intention of trying to perpetrate any theft by deception (...he had provided me with a tracking number - not that anyone could tell me anything other than the package had been accepted in France) and I also knew that the "fault" for any disappearance of the rims in question was not the direct responsibility of either party.

While I consider myself fortunate in that the vast majority (...as in 99.99 percent) of cycling related purchases or sales I have entered into have been without incident, still I would have to admit that there have been times when I have dug in my heels and become totally intransigent with regard to a troubled transaction. But that has NEVER been my first course of action. I firmly believe that if you start out by dealing with someone else in a calm, honest, and straightforward manner, you are much more inclined to ultimately reach a resolution which is agreeable to both / all parties involved.

Respect and consideration beget the same....

Robert "call me preacher Bob" Broderick ..the "Frozen Flatlands" of South Dakota (...minus 35 degrees wind chill) Sioux Falls, USA

P.S. As for those rims I had purchased from Alexander March, they showed up on my doorstep in perfect state almost NINE MONTHS afterwards bearing a posting date and tracking number indicating that he had sent them along within three days close of the original eBay auction listing. Where were they in the interim? Who knows. But I did fire off a PayPal payment equal to the original refund of monies that very same day along with a quick note expressing both my amazement and appreciation.

-----Original Message----- From: classicrendezvous-bounces@bikelist.org [mailto:classicrendezvous-bounces@bikelist.org] On Behalf Of Dale Brown Sent: Monday, December 15, 2008 10:55 AM To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: [CR]Ethical question as applies to Vintage bike parts transactions...

OK friends...

Here is a situation that we all could find ourselves in.

Two reliable, mature & honest CR members agree to a transaction.

Person A ships object to Person B & he receives it.

Person B sends the correct amount of cash to person A.

Person A does not receive payment, it is lost in the mail. A year long wait prove this...

Who is responsible for the loss? Who is "out", the seller or the buyer?

Dale Brown
Greensboro, North Carolina USA
http://www.classicrendezvous.com