Dear List,
What a roller coaster. I see no way to prove my frame's provenance as a Holdsworth. That said, there is much reason to believe she is a Holdsworth, foremost because the previous owner, Dave Patrick, is a respected CR list member and I have no reason to doubt him or his word. However, once a frame's authenticity is reasonably questioned, it is difficult to write your eBay audience and say, "trust me because I trust the previous owner, it's a Holdsworth." As soon as I could not provide evidence of her previous life combined with features that do raise doubt in numerous buyers minds, bids were cancelled even before I spoke up to the list and opened the Pandora's box. As you may have been reading on-list, there are differences of opinion as to who she was pre-paint and decals. I believe her to be a Holdsworth, especially in light of the many emails sent both on and off list. That is not meant to be disrespectful of those believing she is something other than a Holdsworth, it is simply the conclusion I come to based on Dave and much of the information offered in the last 24hrs. Probably the most important news came from Dave himself in that the frame, when acquired by him was badged a Holdsworth but decaled a Bob Addy. Given Bob's relationship with Holdsworth and key individuals in the company, this is indeed very reasonable.
Dave Patrick and I share a different view with regards to canceling the auction - he feels I was hasty, I believe that as the current owner and seller, I was prudent and erred on the side of my credibility and reputation. The frame will not go back on eBay as I do not have the time nor patience to deal with questions rehashing this over yet again. She is for sale to the CR list for $500 plus actual shipping. If you believe her to be a Holdsworth, it is a smacking good deal; if you believe her to be a Bob Jackson, it is still a very smart price; if you do not have an opinion but just want a darn cool frameset, well, you'd be hard pressed to find something this nice with such special details at such a price. First to claim her and pay the $500 promptly (Paypal at my email address) gets her. See details below my sign-off; pictures available if requested.
This has been a challenging situation to navigate through; I have tried to do so without being accusatory, naming names inappropriately and striving to uphold the type of character I would expect of others toward me and this list.
Happy & Healthy New Year to all,
Eric Elman Somers, CT USA
Below is the original description cut and pasted from Dave's auction when I purchased her in April of 2006:
Here is an exceptional example of a rare Holdsworth Super Mistral Fastback model frameset circa '72. This frame fell just below the top-of-the-line Professional model in the Holdsworth lineup and its name was drawn from the way the seat stays attached behind the seat lug. This particular frameset has just been refinished by the Bob Jackson shop in the U.K. with orange enamel, while the seat tube bands and head tube are finished in Oxford Blue. Red enamel has been used to pinstripe the bands and head tube for added contrast. The original headbadge has been installed with proper rivets, while original transfers were fitted, including the appropriate Reynolds 531 sticker. This frame also includes a very rare NOS Campy straight-levered quick-release seat post clamp, as originally specified by Holdsworth on this model. Pretty neat, huh? NOS Tange Levin headset just installed. Additional features include a Cinelli-style fork crown, Campagnolo dropouts, along with Prugnat lugs. NOS Campy old-style dropout screws have also just been fitted. Everything is fresh, never used and like new!!! No braze-ons. The seat tube measures 22 1/2 c-t, while the top tube measures 22 1/2 c-c. Rear spacing is 126mm. Don't miss this opportunity to add this stunning example of British workmanship to your collection, as this frame will build up a stunning bike. (Eric - note, there is chainstay derailleur cable stop braze on)
Below is anything new I have learned since the auction start along with most emails that have been sent (some have sent info but requested to remain in confidence):
1. After further research, this appears to be a Bob Jackson produced Merlin. The serial number is formatted as a Jackson, and not at all like a Holdsworth, even considering known variances. See current e-bay listing number 270319751498 for a BJ Merlin fastback. There should be a brazed on rear brake bridge, and the seat lug taper is different from the Holdsworth. The wheelbase is not correct for a Super Mistral, probably owing to the front fork. It has no eyelets as on rear, and may be fom a Holdsworth Pro. This is a very interesting and vintage British frame, but not what I believed it to be. I must respectfully retract my bid.
2. Hello Eric, Maybe I can help with the ID of your 'Holdsworth'
My first 6 years framebuilding where with Bob Jackson [before I moved on to Woodrup's] It certainly does look like a BJ or Merlin.......the Merlin range as I recall where exactly the same as a BJ, but where supposed to be of a cheaper price range, even though we made them in the same manner as a BJ, or even a JRJ [John Robert Jackson]
The rear brake bridge as quite a large center boss, which I remember, though I can't remember now if this was a later style to the smaller boss or the other way round.
As for 'scalloping the rear stays'.........just a bit of careful use of a vice actually!
Regarding the two numbers, I suspect 2259 is the actual frame # wheras 412 is the # the frame shop stamped on renovations for the paint shop records, [ I hated this method as it made the frame appear second hand or certainly not a new one anymore!]
Incidently having looked at the Merlin on eBay I remember brazing on those rings at the top of the down tube for bar controls, amazing there still on as they where prone to getting snapped off!
Wonder why it was spayed up as a Holdsworth?
Cheers Kevin Sayles. Bridgwater Somerset UK
3. I am the party that sold Eric the Holdsworth frame and I purchased the frame from a party in the U.K. I am very surprised to see it's pedigree questioned at this point. I used to be very active on the CR list, having been a member for 8+ years now, but have remained in the background for the past 4 years. I've dealt with a lot of CR members and pride myself on my integrity. I believe Eric is jumping the gun here by "buying into" that this is not a Holds frameset. Here is my most recent email to Eric:
Eric,
I'm sorry, but I think this is bullshit, to be very candid. Man, I've never done anything to mislead anyone on any items that I've sold, so to have this come from out of the past at such a late date is surprising. Just so you know, BJ does stamp all frames w/numbers that are brought in for refinishing.
From my memory: This frame was labeled as a "Bob Addy", who was an ex-Holds racing team member. Bob had his own store for a while and it is my understanding that he had Holds make up some frames to Super Mistral specs w/his name on them to be sold in his store. The frame had Bob Addy stickers w/a Holds headbadge when I acquired the frame in the U.K. It was sent directly to BJ for refinish.
Now, who is playing the Holds expert w/info on wheelbase etc?
Dave
I stand by this frame and I can attest it was NOT a Bob Jackson or Merlin. That is just silly stuff. Perhaps a "Bob Addy" labeled frame is not exactly like the Super Mistrals? Anyway, I think a rush to judgement has occured here and Eric has been a bit too hasty in stopping his auction.
Dave Patrick Chelsea, Michigan
4. From a common sense perspective, it doesn't even add up: I asked Bob Jackson to rebadge a BJ/Merlin frame as a Holdsworth? And then had it refinished as a Super Mistral? Huh? Not much of an economic incentive there. And I sincerely doubt that BJ would re-badge a frame if asked to do so, to be very honest, especially one of their own. It's a very strange argument going on here.
Hope you are well and having a great holiday season. Best of luck for 2009.
Dave Patrick
5. Yes, I agree, it doesn't make any sense. Plus, the only thing that exists as marginal evidence are the serial numbers. All the rest about those features is blooey. All those dimensions and details are common Brit bike variables.
6. I bought a "Hill Cycles" Professional which is basically a W.F. Holdsworth Professional made for a bicycle shop in Philadelphia called "HILL CYCLES" . The bicycle is a bit large for me.It's a 25" frameset........I just can't pass up a good deal on an all original bicycle,when I come across one.I think you can relate to that.
I did some research on Google Images and found some interesting results....... I forwarded on the link to you in a separate email, it was too long to copy and past. Basically what they were saying is one could request additional braze-ons........when I cycled in England it was not uncommon to see the English riders with a rack on a racing bicycle........So just having rear braze-ons alone doesn't mean anything one way or another.......your fork and frame numbers match,so that's a good sign.
1972 The only change to the 1971 spec was that the road Pro could have additional braze-ons if requested.
7. Hello Eric As there have been some doubts raised I am sure you are right to withdraw your frame from sale to give you time to investigate further. You may find it useful to compare your frame with a Merlin machine currently for sale on ebayUK , No 270319751498, which I think by the style and the lugs used is more likely to be mid 60s to mid 70s. I currently have in my possession three pre 1954 JRJs and a Merlin, and none of them bear any resemblance to the ebay Merlin. One of the common features of them all is that they have a three figure frame number stamped upside down on the top portion of the right hand dropout, but that practice may have ceased in later years, and certainly the numbers would have become four digit by mid 50s if they continued the same numbering sequence.
Good luck with your research.
8. Eric, Bob Addy was a member of Hemel Hemstead C.C. Reg Collard Holdsworth frame builder lived in Hemel and he built several of Bobs frame at his home there, as well as a few at the shop in Putney. Tommy Quick T.J.Q. cycles also built for Bob and Holdsworth from about 1973 onwards. Bob Addy rode several types of Holdsworth, the copper plated frames, Strada and the Team Professional. T J Q Cycles & Engineering Telephone: 020-8699-3367 Address: 230 Stanstead Road, London, SE23 1DD With Bob's connections this is more likely a Holdsworth.
9. I am afraid I am going to set the cat amongst the pigeons as I don't think there's any doubt in my mind that this frame was built by Holdsworthy and was essentially the same spec as a Holdsworth Super Mistral Fastback. The Holdsworthy company built frames for many shops around the country (and especially so in the London area) and these frames often do not carry a Holdsworth frame number. I have had a couple of Ken Ryall frames which were Holdsworthy built but had a frame number specific to the shop whose transfer they carried.
The way in which the fastback is carried out and the other details of this frame all shout Holdsworth to me, certainly not Bob Jackson. The problem seems to lie in the fact that it was originally sold as a Bob Addy and would have carried his transfers which may well be impossible to get. Whether the frame should have been repainted as a Holdsworth is another question which I would not attempt to answer. But this frame did I am certain come from the Holdsworthy factory. The question over the wheelbase is quite spurious as alternative geometries were offered by Holdsworth for this frame. I have seen several different designs for seatstay bridges from Holdsworth - in the case of fastback stays it is very difficult to put a curved bridge in as there is substantially less width so the idea that it should be curved is I think quite wrong.
Hilary Stone, Bristol, United Kingdom
10. Hello Hilary, Seems this debate on whether it is or not a 'Holdsworth' is ongoing. It really is difficult to know for certain just exactly what it is, as it does resemble many type of 'frames of the day',
However, I have to differ with your view on it 'not being a Bob Jackson' because of the fastback seat stays!........that method of 'fastback' is exactly how we used to do them on such models as the 'Messina', I've done enough of them to know.
At the end of the day its a nice frame, and perhaps Eric should re auction it as Holdsworth and be done with it! [and not be distracted by any future remarks as to its authenticity]
Regards
Kevin Sayles
Bridgwater Somerset UK