I'll thought I'd strip out something from the commentary below that I think serves as a perfect example of what I think underlies so many aspects of "bicycle culture" and "bicycling advocacy" that results in friction or the turning off of others to cycling and the cycling community:
"If bikes are to become more widely used in America, and I think it is highly desirable that they should, we must develop a culture that sees cycling a desirable, healthy, and socially responsible, all of which are true IMHO."
We already have a culture in America called "American Culture" that encompasses
the following:
1. An appreciation for technological development and change including the field of transportation is which bicycles are an existing and viable option.
2. A recognition of the individual right to determine for oneself what is desireable or not.
3. A recognition of the individual right to determine for oneself what is healthy or not - one man's cup of tea isn't necessarily another's.
4. A recognition of the rule of law, and a jury's right to determine when one individual has violated another individual's right to privacy, property, etc.
(Have to admit they are under attack lately...)
Socially responsible? Usually when I hear that phrase it comes from the mouth of a socialist or communist who want to IMPOSE their view as policy and deny to
others the same. Lately they have come from phony conservatives in sheeps clothing.
If you want to persuade...great! Go for it...and respect the rights of those who aren't persuaded. Your loaded statement doesn't argue for persuasion - but
rather imposition wrapped in an easy to swallow pill coating.
I'll take my own thank you...
=8-)
Robert Shackelford San Jose, CA USA
Quoting Jerome & Elizabeth Moos <jerrymoos@sbcglobal.net>:
> I agree with Ted. I found this clever and amusing also, and the attiutude
> towards motorists was one of good-natured condescension, not the active and
> occasionally violent hostility one sometimes sees among the most extreme
> bicycle activists in the US.
>
> If bikes are to become more widely used in America, and I think it is highly
> desirable that they should, we must develop a culture that sees cycling a
> desirable, healthy, and socially responsible, all of which are true IMHO.
> Evidently Denmark already possesses such a culture, and they should be
> admired for that. I don't see that they are demonizing motorists, indeed one
> of the items mentioned leaving the car parked while cycling to work, meaning
> they feel no guilt about owning an automobile.
>
> I'm hardly an anti-car fanatic, and indeed I work at an oil refinery and have
> worked in refineries most of my life. I see no contradiction in using
> petroleum and automobiles where they are really needed or highly beneficial,
> while using bicycles (or walking or mass transport) whenever we can. I do
> find it a bit ironic to commute by cycle to work at a refinery, but ironic in
> a pleasant way. I think Denmark and some other European countries have a
> healthier balance of auto use with its alternatives than we do in America,
> and I think we would do well to learn from them. A national belief in the
> superiority of every single aspect of one's own culture is not a sign of
> strength, but a fatal weakness that will eventually destroy any society.
>
> Regards,
>
> Jerry Moos
> Big Spring, Texas, USA
>
>
>
> --- On Thu, 12/18/08, ternst <ternst1@cox.net> wrote:
>
> From: ternst <ternst1@cox.net>
> Subject: Re: [CR]18 Way to Know You Have Bike Culture
> To: mrrabbit@mrrabbit.net, "Amir Avitzur" <walawalaoxenfree@gmail.com>
> Cc: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
> Date: Thursday, December 18, 2008, 12:28 PM
>
> Let's not take this too personal or seriously.
> I chuckled a little with the actuality as it is in Denmark, coupled with
> some tongue in cheek.
> To understand it from THEIR society and how they view it, one has to have
> been there, stayed a while, and ridden bikes around the towns and
> countryside.
> I have done so.
> As as a country we have been so big and dominant so long we have tended to
> be more isolationist and become too provincial in many ways, so we don't
> really "get it", witness our standing in the world today when it
> comes to
> giving other countries respect, dignity, and understanding.
> In many countries the bike is THE MODE of transport. We are a car dominated
> society.
> Bike people here may be in some facets of our sport more a CULT than an
> actual CULTURE!
> It's always important to recognize and understand the difference.
> Ride your bike and enjoy! To hell with the rest! Loosen up those legs and
> your brain.
> Ride and let ride.
> Ted Ernst
> Palos Verdes Estates
> CA USA
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <mrrabbit@mrrabbit.net>
> To: "Amir Avitzur" <walawalaoxenfree@gmail.com>
> Cc: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
> Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 9:37 AM
> Subject: Re: [CR]18 Way to Know You Have Bike Culture
>
>
> > Honestly, I didn't find it cute...nor on topic. Actually, I thought
> every
> > item
> >
> > was contrived...and sensed an anti-car, anti-conservative,
> > anti-libertarian
> > agenda in it as well.
> >
> > One though was right on spot: "I just ride."
> >
> > Seriously, if someone feels the need to subscribe to some kind of
> > "culture" as
> > part of riding on or working with bicycles - I have to question why they
> > are on
> >
> > a bike in the first place.
> >
> > Is it possible that it's because they have to, and hate it, and
> suscribing
> > to
> > a "culture" is their way of dealing with it. Maybe such
> cyclists really
> > are
> > envious of motorists? Jealous? Debate away...I have better things to
> > do...
> >
> > In my case, I like bicycles. I like cars. I just ride and drive 'em.
>
> > And
> > even when I can't afford a car, big deal. I just get on with it...
> >
> > Even though I don't really listen much to Dr. Laura, one time I did
> listen
> > in
> > when she made a point that I think might just fit right in here...
> >
> >
> > "There are two kinds of women. There are those who hate men.
> Complain
> > about
> > men. Attack men. Whine about this and that and equality outside and in
> > the
> > home...etc...and spend their life being miserable. Then there are those
> > women
> >
> > who understand that men are born to women, raised by women, and married to
> > women...and they use that power wisely."
> >
> >
> > Maybe some cyclists out there need to think about the above and apply it
> > to
> > their cycling life, their relationship with motorists, etc...and give it
> > some
> > more thought.
> >
> > =8-)
> >
> > Robert Shackelford
> > San Jose, CA USA
> >
> >
> >
> > Quoting Amir Avitzur <walawalaoxenfree@gmail.com>:
> >
> >> This is cute and, maybe even, on topic.
> >>
> >> http://www.copenhagenize.com/
> > bicycle.html
> >>
> >> Happy Holidays
> >>
> >> Amir Avitzur
> >> R"G Israel
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> PRIVACY WARNING: For auditing purposes, a copy of this message has
> been
> >> saved in a permanent database.
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > PRIVACY WARNING: For auditing purposes, a copy of this message has been
> > saved in a permanent database.
> > _______________________________________________
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
>
> --
> PRIVACY WARNING: For auditing purposes, a copy of this message has been
> saved in a permanent database.
--
PRIVACY WARNING: For auditing purposes, a copy of this message has been
saved in a permanent database.