Hello all,
Technically, yes the images are protected under copyright of the original cr eator, publisher, or their assignees.
However, it's a grey area when a catalog, illustration, or photograph is ver y old and the original owners are no longer around.
With that being said, one should ALWAYS seek permission, and this should inv olve the source of the material, as they may be the current owner of the cop yright or have knowledge of the owner, which could be an estate or business. Not always practical, but it is a must, and is in fact the due diligence wh ich was spoken of.
For current and recent images, such as photographs and illustrations, where the owner is easily located, it's a piece of cake, especially considering th e ease of contact through the internet. It's usually a "yes or no" propositi on.
If one is in the position of owning a piece of material such as a catalog, b ook, illustration, or photograph, and chooses to scan it and reproduce it fo r the purpose of sharing, with no fees involved, there is normally not a pro blem. This would certainly apply to wooljersey.com, where the sole purpose i s sharing information, much like a library or school.
However, if a fee is involved anywhere along the line, the situation changes to one of commerce. And the use then becomes copyright infringement, which is a punishable offense.
We should always respect copyrighted material. After all, it was through som eone's effort and expense that the material was initially created. We should also exercise our due diligence in regard to the sharing and publishing of this information. The internet is now legally considered to be publishing.
Let's keep the sharing side the primary focus of our activities and publishi ng. And if one is in the BUSINESS of publishing these materials, please, by all means, obtain permission PRIOR TO USE.
Respectfully,
Chris Wimpey,
San Diego, CA
Home of the Finest Bicycling Weather on the Planet
-----Original Message----- From: John Barron <jb@velostuf.com> To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org; sadiqgill@gmail.com Sent: Mon, 18 Feb 2008 3:18 pm Subject: [CR]Using someone else's images
Sadiq-
I thought that Robert was complaining about Jon using his scanned images. Of course Robert doesn't have any copyright on a catalog that was published long ago, but if he went to the trouble of scanning it, expending time, expertise and energy, aren't those images protected?
John Barron Minneapolis
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2008 17:07:57 -0500
From: "Sadiq Gill" <sadiqgill@gmail.com>
To: "R.S. Broderick" <rsb000@hotmail.com>
Cc: Dale Brown <oroboyz@aol.com>
Cc: "classicrendezvous@bikelist.org" <Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
Subject: Re: [CR]An Open Letter To Jon Fischer / VeloBase And The CR List
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Message: 9
Mr. Broderick.....
Although I can appreciate that you are pissed at someone for hijacking
your effort and not to burst your proverbial bubble.....but---as someone who
kinda sorta does some of this for a living---I think your copyright analysis
is flawed for several reasons. First and foremost, old catalogs may or may
not be copyrighted depending upon their country of origin and how all of
that was handled here in the states (if at all). I am guessing that much is
public domain either by time or non-enforcement. Secondly, even if the work
is properly copyrighted and you have a obtained permissive use, it is not
your copyright to enforce. As a permissive user you have no rights other
than those of your limited license. Lastly, and probably most fatal to the
whole analysis is the fair use exception--which I would hazard a guess that
parts and public sales info falls well within for the purpose of what the
the VeloBase web site is undertaking. The fact of the matter is that the
catalogs when issued or distributed had little or no commercial value. The
value of the material was collateral to the parts and bikes that were being
sold and distributed. Take a look at :
*Kelly v. Arriba Soft Corporation* (280 F.3d 934 (CA9 2002) *withdrawn*,
re-filed at 336 F.3d 811(CA9 2003). Has to do with a search engine
publishing thumbnails of a photographer's work; but, directly analogous to
this set of facts.
Take care,