Fred-issimo:
A few comments:
1) No, the 'early' Athena spindles, as you refer to them, cannot be used with post-1977 Record cranks, as they are symmetrical spindles.
2) No, the 'early' Athena spindles for 70 mm shells were not any longer than the ones for 68 mm shells. Only the bearing shoulder spacing is different (by 2 mm, funny enough...).
3) I don't think your assumption about the Internet vendors that sell the modern 111 mm Centaur BB is exactly correct. When they say "fits pre-1995 Record" I'm pretty sure they mean that it will work for, uh, pre-1995 Record, which means 135 mm BCD C-Rec and Record cranks between 1985 and 1995 (that use a 111 mm symmetrical BB), not 1958-1987 vintage Record Pista (which uses a 109 mm symmetrical BB). Part of the problem is that Campagnolo has really abused and over-used the term "Record" over the years. Darn Marketing guys anyways. Can't trust 'em....
4) I don't consider my self at all confused about this topic, as I ignore all things Campagnolo after about 1990! :-)
5) Everyone on this list should consider purchasing a vintage Sutherland's Handbook, imho. It will answer so many technical questions about on-topic parts, it's not even funny.
Greg Parker Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA (thirty minutes from Detroit Metro Airport, forty-five minutes west of Dee-troit itself) Third Rock
Date: Sun, 4 May 2008 18:07:49 -0700 (PDT) From: Fred Rednor <fred_rednor@yahoo.com> To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: [CR] Wanted: Campagnolo Pista axle (Italian)
> Athena spindles are either 114 or 116 mm long, depending > on the vintage. Too long to be used as a surrogate Record > Pista spindle.... > > Fred, perhaps you are thinking of the (silver in color) > Victory spindles...
Greg,
If Campagnolo could confuse a guy with your experience, I have to afford them even more respect, even if it's an ironic sort of recognition. They've fooled me, as well, because - as we will see in a moment - I clearly forgot about the earliest versions of the Athena crankset.
In some respects, this is off-topic, yet it others it is totally on-topic, because it relates to interchangeability with on-topic cranksets. So here's the story. It's not short, so if you don't care about this sort of thing, hit the Delete key immediately. But I'm going to give the full story, both for posterity and in the name of science...
The original Athena cranksets did use bottom brackets with 114mm spindles. That's for the English BB. (Were they 115 for the Italian version?) I imagine these can be used for the post 1978 Nuovo and Super Record cranksets.
In 1993, the design of the Athena crank arms changed. In fact, they were Chorus arms without the same level of finishing on the surfaces that faced the frame. At this point, the Athena BB was similar to the Chorus (i.e. 111mm, symmetrical) except that it was meant for thin wall cups. By the way, these Athena spindles were silver, rather than black.
There is also a later Athena BB, that uses cartridge bearings. It is also 111mm symmetrical. This BB uses mounting rings that are similar to Phil Wood rings. But their most distinguishing feature is that the phrase "Campagnolo Athena" is stamped along their circumferance. (Or is it Athena Campagnolo? After all, they're circular...)
I'm familiar with this crazy situation because I ride bikes with examples of both. On my track bike, I use the cartridge bearing Athena BB. My Peugeot PGN-10 has a Swiss threaded BB. When the original Nervar crankset wore out, I replaced it with one of the Athenas that was based on the Chorus. The only Swiss threaded cups available were of the thin-wll type. (I actually have a Stronglight on one side and a TA cup on the other.) To get the appropriate spindle, I purchased an entire English Athena BB, whose cups became the first items in my "great bottom bracket collection." To complete this tome, I'll add a final comment. A few Internet vendors who sell the (modern) Centaur 111mm, symmetrical bottom bracket, include the following description with that BB: "Also fits 1993 and later Athena and pre-1995 Record and Chorus cranks." I presume this means, that in addition to working with the later versions of Athena crankets, this BB will also work with Pista cranksets.
If necessary, I can bring all his stuff to the Cirque. But anyone coming to the
Cirque can also make a small side trip to my house to examine this stuff. I
live 3 miles from Washington, D.C. quite close to Reagan National Airport.
Best regards,
Fred Rednor (quite close to Washington, D.C. and
Reagan National Airport) in Arlington,
Virginia, USA