Hi Jan:
Since I believe these are among the most important questions facing the vintage bicycle collector, I'm going to respond to your latest post.
Let me begin with your last comment first. Most every bike collector would prefer an "original" Herse-that's not the issue. The bikes whose images you've referenced are no longer "originals", they're heavily damaged, and virtually destroyed. The issue is what to do with them-the answer is to repair them properly, using the best repairers and techniques available.
To claim that wax is somehow sealing the frame strikes me as dubious. Wax is a very poor sealant and, in the worst case, may well encourage continued oxidation since any water entering cannot readily escape. In any event, what's been preserved is just rust.
You carefully sidestep the question regarding what "information" would be lost by a proper repair. I submit that no "information" would be lost and the integrity of what remains would be preserved. If necessary, various photographic, chemical, and even X-Ray techniques could be used to document the bike before commencing repairs.
Now you further allege that there is presently no one qualified to repair a Herse. This allegation I reject-their are many highly qualified artisans (most well known to CR listers, and others with a lower profile) that can repair an Herse and, for that matter, any other bike as well. If the proper pigments and techniques can found to restore every other form of collectible, those needed to repaint and rechrome an Herse can also be identified.
As far as replicas are concerned, although I never brought up this issue, they also may have their place where an original Herse is not be had, or for someone who wouldn't want to expose a valuable original to the stresses of everyday use. It is my understanding that replica Herse bikes are being produced already, or will be soon. This way you could have one for show and one for go!
In sum, and in short, these heavily damaged and important Herse bikes have no valuable patina or deeply hidden secrets-what they need is an owner with the will and means to have them repaired or place them in the hands of someone who can.
Regards,
George
George Hollenberg MD
CT, USA
> At 4:23 PM +0000 7/17/08, gholl@optonline.net wrote:
> >Hi Jan:
> >Your questions and concerns can be addressed directly:
> >Can these Herse bikes be repaired without destroying them-of
> course,
> >and the sooner the better. They're almost destroyed by neglect
> >already. This destruction is continuing beneath the wax.
>
> I don't see how the "destruction" is continuing beneath the wax.
> Rust
> is iron oxide. Without oxygen, there is no rust. Wax seals off
> the
> flow of oxygen to the steel. In fact, the 1952 Herse's owner, as
> an
> experiment, polished the fork blades down to bare steel. So if
> there
> is rust forming, it has to form on the surface. And so far, none
> has
> formed. At the current rate, that bike probably has another 300-
> 500
> years in it, if it is stored in a reasonably dry place.
>
> >I don't know what "information" would be lost by a proper repair.
>
> What is a proper repair? If I took a completely rusted hulk, cut
> out
> the left rear dropout and the fork crown with the frame's serial
> number and build a new frame around those, would it still be an
> Herse? If yes, what if I just build a replica? So perhaps we
> should
> keep the original and build a replica?
>
> Photos are nice, but the real thing remains the real thing.
> Otherwise, we could throw out all the bikes in our book "The
> Golden
> Age of Handbuilt Bicycles", since they are so well-documented now!
>
> >What is of most importance here is that the repairs be
> correctly
> >done. The means to repaint, rechrome and produce decals, parts,
> etc.
> >is available.
>
> Unfortunately, that is not the case. We do not even know exactly
> what
> paints they used originally. At first, we thought it was
> lacquer, but
> it appears to be enamel. Most painters today don't use enamels,
> and
> in fact, they aren't legal in many places any more. Good
> stripers are
> hard to find as well. Even if the result looks passable when
> new, the
> new materials will acquire different patina as they age.
>
> If you can think of somebody who can provide "correct"
> repair/restoration work in this country, I would be very
> interested
> to hear about it. I am not trying to put down those who refinish
> frames. They often do an excellent job, but I have not seen many
> bikes that could be mistaken for originals after they have been
> restored. They are like those churches Alex M. mentioned -
> perhaps
> lovely to behold, but very different from what they used to be.
>
> >Of course, and quite rightly so, the cost of such work work is
> very high.
>
> Indeed, and it far exceeds the value of the bike.
>
> >But, in my opinion, these are just the type of vintage bikes
> that
> >should be properly repaired.
>
> I think we should start the repairs with those bikes that really
> need
> repairs - the mutilated, repainted, massacred ones. I just
> finished
> famous tandem that was a basket case if there ever was one. No
> qualms
> about restoring there. And if it does not turn out perfectly,
> like
> that 1946 Herse, not much (beyond money) is lost. However, this
> time,
> I am happy with the results, but I still would prefer an original.
>
> Jan Heine
> Editor
> Bicycle Quarterly
> 140 Lakeside Ave #C
> Seattle WA 98122
> http://www.bikequarterly.com
>
George Hollenberg MD
CT, USA