Re: [CR]re: real or fake panto? - GRANSPORT panto ** OK **

(Example: Framebuilding:Tubing:Columbus)

From: "Charles Andrews" <chasds@mindspring.com>
To: Harry Travis <travis.harry@gmail.com>, donald gillies <gillies@ece.ubc.ca>
References: <19671231000002.6A8B42C491@ug12.ece.ubc.ca> <58dbc8400901042231o47c4ba73qaff9ba5890c34400@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [CR]re: real or fake panto? - GRANSPORT panto ** OK **
Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 07:07:57 -0800
cc: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org

my issue with old parts recently pantographed is the same issue I'd have with any reproduction. It wasn't pantographed "in the day," ergo, it's not an original. It was done later. For me, that's all it takes to remove nearly all collectible value. and I like putting authentic stuff on my bikes.

I'll make an exception now and then, but that's just me. I would like to see these guys on ebay make it crystal clear what they're selling, is all.

Charles ----- Original Message ----- From: Harry Travis To: donald gillies Cc: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org ; chasds@mindspring.com Sent: Sunday, January 04, 2009 10:31 PM Subject: Re: [CR]re: real or fake panto? - GRANSPORT panto ** OK **

And what is the difference between a pantographed chainring --engraving by a different name -- and an engraved wedding band? (Yes, besides the fact that only one other party is interested, and definitely in your not offering it for sale or trade.)

Who, historically, authorized pantographing / engraving? Who received license fees? (I'm not asking obvious trademark infringement or identity theft.)

I don't understand why, in a world awash in surplus inexpensive stepping motors of exquisite accuracy, inexpensive mini mills today cannot economically today replace expensive pantograph machines for limited-run and even one-off production.That said, because it has been remarked here more than once that replicas would be too expensive to produce. I say that if one's taste runs to classic 3ttt stems, the printing on the heads of many could stand engraving or etching.

Harry Travis Washington, DC USA

On Mon, Jan 5, 2009 at 12:53 AM, donald gillies <gillies@ece.ubc.ca> wrote:

Charles, & Courtney,

Pantographed gransport parts are NOT surprising. After all, a pantographed gransport gazelle tour l'avenir bike just sold on ebay a few weeks ago in like-new condition. Also, I've seen BC & Cecile (Renaissance Cycles) sell MANY pantographed gransport components over the years, especially cranks and brakes, OLMO or similar second-tier components. Kevin Kruger's gazelle on wooljersey has pantographed gransport brake levers.

Anyway, my point is, Pantographing was never just for Nuovo Record alone !!

- Don Gillies
      San Diego, CA, USA
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