In 1952 GB Introduced a cable oiler that I have, The only way I can get this to work is with the front brake cable going to the front lever when mounted on the LEFT side WITH the rear brake?lever on the right and cable on the right to get both cables lined up to gether. SOOOO! GB must have thought that using the front lever on the left was the only way to go RIGHT!? NOW if you use Campag Etc.?brake caliphers THEN you can mount the front lever on the RIGHT. RIGHT!? Also. I allways seemed to back pedal to stop on a single fixed with power from my RIGHT leg. couteracting this with my left hand braking on my left mounted brake lever?to my front wheel.Kept the bike?in a straight line.?Imagine a bucking bronco rider using his left hand for the tether and waving his cowboy hat?with his righthand RIGHT!?? John Crump OldbuckingthebikeBrit. Parker. Co USA
-----Original Message----- From: classicrendezvous-request@bikelist.org To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Sent: Sun, 18 Jan 2009 2:37 am Subject: Classicrendezvous Digest, Vol 73, Issue 80
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Today's Topics:
1. Bicycle Quarterly's Braking issue, 'Modern Racing Brakes' (Barb and Dan Artley) 2. Re: Rear deraillure in a hundred pieces (Dickey) 3. ebay outing: colnago-Merckx track bike (Charles Andrews) 4. Re: 1975 Major Nichols track bike (David Ross) 5. Re: Help!!!! Broken DO eyelet (donald gillies) 6. re- Harden hub question (Peter Brown) 7. Viscount with LUGS?? (Putman, Clyde) 8. wanted..mansfield north road saddle. (Rnitro1969@aol.com) 9. Campagnolo suitable taps/dies (Wayne Davidson) 10. Introduction/Help looking for a paint color (Blake Godwin) 11. Re: Bicycle Quarterly's Braking issue, 'Modern Racing Brakes' (M-gineering) 12. Re: Correct toilet roll wrapping (Mark Fulton) 13. Re: Right brake-front, left brake-rear (kevin sayles) 14. Re: brake levers (Tobit Linke) (tobit linke)
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Message: 1 Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2009 23:58:34 -0500 From: Barb and Dan Artley <hydelake@verizon.net> Subject: [CR] Bicycle Quarterly's Braking issue, 'Modern Racing Brakes' To: Classic Rendezvous <Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Message-ID: <001c01c97929$6b1ef220$2f01a8c0@danbarbpc> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
I finished reading the latest bicycle quarterly a few days ago and was very impressed with the history and advances of braking technology. I learned a lot. I do have to question an item that Jan brought up in Chapter 4, Modern Racing Brakes , describing the Campagnolo sidepull as being a step backward in brake technology. 'Campagnolo's brake offered adequate perfomance, but it did not compare favorably to a good centerpull brake. The famous line was invented that these bakes did not stop the bike, but just "modulated speed".'
I do agree that the Campy pads in particular faded badly in the heat. And I had a pair of aching hands once after starting a mountain descent in the rain bunched up with about eight or nine hundred of my closest friends for the money shot at the start of a wet 'Cycle across Maryland'. But racing cyclists can't be all wrong. Those brakes were favored in the peloton for many years because they worked well. If a spoke broke or a wheel went out of true, it was easy to open the brake caliper a bit with it's micoadjust lever on a brake that would open more than a centerpull because it had a longer lever arm. The adjustment barrel could loosen or tighten the caliper further without having to stop riding. Properly adjusted, they didn't chatter and were one of the most solid feeling brakes of the day. And because it took a firm feel, modulation and quick response was excellent. With Mathauser pads optimizing my personal bike, feedback makes it easy to keep braking close to the limit of the tire's adhesion both front and rear. The wheels can be locked, but to me not as easily as centerpulls. I'm sure at least a few of you have done emergency braking at speed with both wheels feathering a line over an unexpected slippery patch to keep from going down.
The Campy sidepull basically enhanced one of the greatest racing or fairly close ratio brakes of all time, the lowly Weinman 500 sidepull which I believe works every bit as well. I think it preceded the Campagnolo sidepulls. The flats on the Campy's centerbolt allowed a cone wrench to center the caliper easily, and took two 'Y' wrenches on the 500 to do the same thing. Through the years Weinman offered different barrel adjusters, quick releases, the ability to reverse the housing direction (say for ladies frames), but the Campagnolo sidepull served it's purpose like another famous line 'with jewel like precision'.
While I look at the progression from GB coureur sidepulls (the earliest brakes I've tried) to Weinman to Campagnolo and now the dual pivots which are hard to better in a short to medium reach brake, the Campagnolo Nuovo & Super Record's were (and still are) fabulous brakes for all but tandems and heavily laden touring bikes. And I still put up with them on my tourer! I believe in old technology that works well.
Happy trails,
Dan Artley in Parkton, Maryland USA
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Message: 2 Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2009 23:10:34 -0600 From: Dickey <ogreer@bellsouth.net> Subject: Re: [CR] Rear deraillure in a hundred pieces To: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Message-ID: <44C7F91DE8084ED58EE029CE7D186597@cpugreer> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
To Todd and List. Putting the spring back in place is simple after you do it one time. Next to the knurled barrel that the spring resides in is a smooth stud about 1/8" in diameter,and 1/2" long, with a screw driver slot on the end. Unscrew it and then put the spring in the barrell and look at the 2 holes as one should be worn slightly from being used. If not just pick one, as It doesn't make much difference. Screw the big spring bolt back into the cage plate nut and when tight, twist the pulley cage counter-clock-wise one more half turn, then screw the 1/8" stud back in place as it is what holds your spring pressure in check. If it feels too tight or too floppy , then undo and move the spring to the other hole. I doubt you'll be able to tell any differance. Good luck. Dickey Greer West Monroe,La
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Message: 3 Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2009 21:15:22 -0800 From: Charles Andrews <chasds@mindspring.com> Subject: [CR] ebay outing: colnago-Merckx track bike To: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Message-ID: <63376A33AE764C408EC56D9E8787C6DF@DELL> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Once again the Colnago-Merckx track bike I offered to the list is back up on ebay, at a buy-it-now of $2600
If any CR lister would like to buy this bike outside ebay, before someone else buys it there, the price is $2500 shipped. Basically the ebay price minus my fees.
E-mail me privately if you'd like to buy it.
Charles Andrews Los Angeles
that's the puzzle of what has happened to the automobile world: feeling safe has become more important than actually being safe.
--Malcolm Gladwell
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Message: 4 Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2009 22:15:12 -0800 From: David Ross <dlr94306@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [CR] 1975 Major Nichols track bike To: ternst <ternst1@cox.net> Cc: Alvin Smith <alvin.smith@btinternet.com>, CR discussion list <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Message-ID: <397247.43071.qm@web110514.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Alvin Smith, the V-CC "marque enthusiast" for Major Nichols has done up a really great bio of Major Nichols. I couldn't begin to do justice to his story, but you can read it all here:
http://www.blackcountrysociety.co.uk/
I think he is one of England's many under-recognized builders of really fine frames. Alvin has a registry going, so anyone with a Major Nichols (or aware of him) should let him know about it.
Dave Ross Portola Valley, California fantasizing about a vist to Hellyer to give the bike a go
bar tape To: "David Ross" <dlr94306@yahoo.com> Date: Saturday, January 17, 2009, 6:35 PM
D: That's a nice bike. Never heard of Major. A few details. Ted ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Ross" <dlr94306@yahoo.com> To: "CR discussion list" <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Sent: Saturday, January 17, 2009 12:47 PM Subject: [CR] 1975 Major Nichols track bike - ready to ride,and last word on bar tape
> I just wrapped the bars and took some photos (the last 7 shots in the
album are of the finished bike):
>
> http://www.flickr.com/
>
...
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Message: 5 Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2009 22:19:10 -0800 From: donald gillies <gillies@ece.ubc.ca> Subject: Re: [CR] Help!!!! Broken DO eyelet To: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Cc: jerrymoos@sbcglobal.net Message-ID: <20090118061910.48C5B2C414@ug4.ece.ubc.ca> Content-Type: text/plain
I think there is a lot to be hopeful about. First of all, if you can find a framebuilder who is skilled with silver (not all of them are, it's very runny), and then do it in a way that protects the nearby chrome, perhaps with flux, as someone else has suggested.
If some nearby chrome is slightly damaged, this is not a problem. I have had very good success restoring damaged pea-sized bits of chrome with a brush chroming set and the right grits of sandpaper (600, 1000, 1500, 2000) and nevr- dull (or its sister, simichrome). The restoration is completely undetectable, except under bright flourescent lights, and only for someone who knows what they are looking for.
This might be the time to invest in a $31 brush chroming set from http://www.caswellplating.com. There are a myriad of things to use it on in any CR garage. And, don't forget that nobody sells high-grades of sandpaper cheaper than caswell plating.com, at just 10-20c for each large sheet.
- Do n Gillies San Diego, CA, USA
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Message: 6 Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2009 06:27:07 +0000 From: Peter Brown <peterg.brown@ntlworld.com> Subject: [CR] re- Harden hub question To: <CrocollCW@state.gov> Cc: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Message-ID: <AC0213CA17864F459855411D36EB6304@nonefpfvwek4mv> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Christopher wrote:
I have a pair of Harden large flange hubs, drilled, in the classic Harden shape. The rear is double sided for fixed and freewheel, and is marked Harden, with a patent number. The front appears to have no markings, although perhaps they are just to faint to see. Is there any way to tell whether these hubs are the original Harden design, or the "Flywate" type, without taking them apart?
You will probably find the answer at Peter Underwood's article at
http://www.classiclightweights.co.uk/
Peter Brown, Lincolnshire, England
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Message: 7 Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2009 00:38:05 -0600 From: "Putman, Clyde" <cputman@mail.smu.edu> Subject: [CR] Viscount with LUGS?? To: "classicrendezvous@bikelist.org" <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Message-ID: <EBE8A7A291051042B2187EB7D4D54EF118DEE17611@SXMBXB.systems.smu.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
For the Viscount lovers out there: Check out ebay listing; 350153411460 I did not think much about it until I saw the last photo with a lugged head tube! Whatcha think, a repair...or what? This is a new Viscount Variant for me.
Cheers from Dallas, TX, USA, Earth: Clyde "checkin out those lugs" Putman
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Message: 8 Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2009 01:39:35 -0500 From: <Rnitro1969@aol.com> Subject: [CR] wanted..mansf ield north road saddle. To: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Message-ID: <c2c.4fd4e568.36a428a7@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
greetings
anyone have a saddle there willing to part with. cash or trades.
rhanks robbie fellows lakewood,ca. usa **************Inauguration '09: Get complete coverage from the nation's capital.(http://www.aol.com?ncid=emlcntaolcom00000027)
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Message: 9 Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2009 20:07:59 +1300 From: Wayne Davidson <wayne.collect@xtra.co.nz> Subject: [CR] Campagnolo suitable taps/dies To: CR <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Message-ID: <4972D54F.3060005@xtra.co.nz> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; format=flowed
Hi all, I'm thinking about getting some taps and dienuts made for the cleaning up if Campagnolo hub axles and cones, they will be both 10mm x26 and 9mm x26. If you are interested please contact me direct. I'll get a price for these items, but I'm sure the more I get made the cheaper per item price will be. All recieved emails replied too..........regards wayne davidson Invers NZ..........
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Message: 10 Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2009 23:09:18 -0800 From: Blake Godwin <saveyourgeneration@gmail.com> Subject: [CR] Introduction/Help looking for a paint color To: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Message-ID: <9b32cc390901172309i2b035885o9a541e05d105ffcf@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"
Dear List, I have been reading for a while but have never written in. Needless to say, I feel a little out of my league considering some of the contributors to this list. Anyway I live in San Francisco and own a Medici Pro-Strada and also a Pro Pista. The Pista is my daily ride and I love riding fixed through the streets of my beautiful city.
The reason I have finally written is that I am hoping somebody here can help me score some major points wit h my girlfriend's father. You see, Stew owns a handful of incredible bikes, but his favorite ride is still his purple Masi Team 3v. In fact he loves it so much that he now wants to paint his race car that same signature purple color. He has had no luck finding a suitable match and I figured that if that color still exists, somebody on this list might now the name and manufacturer of said color. Thank you in advance for any help you might be able to offer.
Sincerely,
Blake Godwin San Francisco, CA
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Message: 11 Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2009 09:21:16 +0100 From: M-gineering <info@m-gineering.nl> Subject: Re: [CR] Bicycle Quarterly's Braking issue, 'Modern Racing Brakes' Cc: Classic Rendezvous <Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Message-ID: <4972E67C.7080908@m-gineering.nl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; format=flowed
Barb and Dan Artley wrote:
> I finished reading the latest bicycle quarterly a few days ago and was
> very impressed with the history and advances of braking technology. I
> learned a lot. I do have to question an item that Jan brought up in
> Chapter 4, Modern Racing Brakes, describing the Campagnolo sidepull as
> being a step backward in brake technology. 'Campagnolo's brake offered
> adequate perfomance, but it did not compare favorably to a good
> centerpull brake. The famous line was invented that these bakes did not
> stop the bike, but just "modulated speed".'
>
In the peloton you'll crash if you run in to something, but also when you're struck from behind. That the brakes needed a concentrated effort to get real retardation was considered a safety feature -- mvg
Marten Gerritsen Kiel Windeweer Netherlands
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Message: 12 Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2009 00:32:03 -0800 From: Mark Fulton <markfulton5@mac.com> Subject: Re: [CR] Correct toilet roll wrapping To: <nicbordeaux@yahoo.fr> Cc: clas sicrendezvous@bikelist.org Message-ID: <83AEE724-BF99-4D1E-9E2C-7E68510984F3@mac.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"; format=flowed
Not only that, rolling it off the back confuses the cats.
Mark Fulton Redwood City California USA
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Message: 13 Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2009 09:24:51 +0000 From: kevin sayles <kevinsayles@tiscali.co.uk> Subject: Re: [CR] Right brake-front, left brake-rear To: Classic Rendezvous <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Message-ID: <953CA9DCFA3145B285516AC48578D9C5@kevinPC> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response
Adding to this 'debate' I'm surprised no one has mentioned a certain element to which lever to use, left or right? I always had my front brake on the right, as all the bikes we build up nowadays in the UK have, but................when concealed brake cables came into fashion [on topic by a couple of years I think] I realised you could get a much neater cable route by the cables crossing each other, which meant having the front brake on the left [unless of course you had Weinmann 500s]
So today I always have front on the left, even on my 'retro' bikes, including Mafac's
Kevin..Time now to brave the duff weather and get out for a ride! Sayles Bridgwater Somerset UK
> Here is an interesting dilemma. I have always set up right - front. Apart
> from being an ex-pat Brit, which I don't think factors in here, when I
> started building up bikes in my teens it made sense to me to run the brake
> cable straight down to the cable-arm (on the right hand side of a front
> Campag brake when viewed from atsride the bike) and thus creating a more
> direct (at least to me) route. My Ilkeston frameset is even set up with
> the cable guides for the rear brake running along the bottom left hand
> side of the top-tube which seems to suggest a left-rear set-up - and a
> more direct route to the rear cable-arm.
>
> Now here is the interesting thing - the GB Standard brakes (1948-9 and
> definitively British) on my Carpenter are set up with the cable-arm on the
> left hand side of the front-brake (again when viewed from astride the
> bike) and without thinking I naturally set up left-front and right rear (I
> wondered why it felt peculiar to me when braking). Again it was more a
> case of routing the cables without crossing. Might have to rethink that
> though!!!
>
> I was never trained to do it one way or the other, but somehow have always
> instinctively preferred not to cross the cables. I have never known
> whether this was right or wrong!!
>
> Paul Williams,
> Ottawa, ON, Canada
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Paul B. Williams, BAH (Laurier), MPhil (Cardiff, Wales), PhD (Queen's)
> Dept. of Geography and Environmental Studies,
> Carleton University,
> castell5@sympatico.ca
> paul_williams@carleton.ca
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jan Heine" <heine94@earthlink.net>
> To: "Jon Spangler" <hudsonspangler@earthlink.net>;
> <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
> Sent: Saturday, January 17, 2009 2:16 AM
> Subject: Re: [CR] Right brake-front, left brake-rear
>
>
>>>>>Now that the bar-wrap saga is almost laid to rest, may I submit "brake
>>>>>levers" for discussion...In England, since most of us rode fixed wheel
>>>>>in
>>>>>the winter and even early season time-trials, the one and only brake
>>>>>lever was on the right hand side. Various ideas of this were that we
>>>>>rode
>>>>>on the left-hand side of the road, the right hand was generally the
>>>>>stronger of the two and mainly, if a young chick had joined the group,
>>>>>it
>>>>>was easier to push her along into a head-wind. When racing on the
>>>>>Continent, the mechanic would oblige my request to
switch the cables
>>>>>around but with some mirth. On emigrating to the States in 1974, I
>>>>>thought
>>>>>it best to "go with the flow" and did my brakes American and
>>>>>Continental
>>>>>style...all went well until 2 years ago on the "Sunday Bash" whilst in
>>>>>Britain....I switched bikes with a young chap who wanted to try a
>>>>>Campagnolo Record equipped bike ...with about 5 miles to go and in
>>>>>pouring rain, we went down a 1 in 4 (called Scarth Nick),,,and I
>>>>>tapped
>>>>>the wrong side lever going into a bend...The bike did a complete 180
>>>>>..I
>>>>>managed luckily to stay upright,,,but even luckier, the other guys
>>>>>thought I did the manouver on purpose and marvelled at my
>>>>>performance..
>>>>>
>>>>>So, which is the correct side? COLIN LAING ( awaiting Obama's stimulus
>>>>>check)
>>
>> The current Bicycle Quarterly "Brake Special" (Winter 2008) has a
>> discussion of brake setup. Of course, it comes down to personal
>> preference.
>>
>> One of our editorial team prefers "right front" because he considers his
>> front brake too important to be left to his less coordinated hand.
>>
>> The other member of the editorial team prefers left-front, because his
>> right hand is too important for eating, reaching for bottles, and
>> shifting, to be bothered with minor tasks like braking. (With good
>> brakes, you don't need huge hand strength to brake effectively.)
>>
>> The different national traditions also are explained in detail in the
>> above-mentioned article. Germany, Italy and Britain prefer (or mandate)
>> right-front. France and the U.S. prefer left-front. Why? The reason
>> actually is the way the rear brake is actuated...
>>
>> In the 1920s, most bikes had brakes only at the rear. Later, front brakes
>> became mandatory (except in the U.S., where they still are not required).
>> Countries that used coaster brakes then used the right hand when they
>> added a (front) rim brake. (Most people are right-handed.) Countries that
>> already used a rear rim brake (opera
ted with the right hand) had only the
>> left hand remaining to operate the new (front) brake. (The U.S. simply
>> followed French tradition when Schwinn introduced the first mass-market
>> bikes with rim brakes.)
>>
>> So no way is right, just like riding on the right or the left of the road
>> is a matter of convention, rather than one being better than the other.
>>
>> Jan Heine
>> Editor
>> Bicycle Quarterly
>> 140 Lakeside Ave #C
>> Seattle WA 98122
>> http://www.vintagebicyclepress.com
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
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Message: 14 Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2009 09:37:49 +0000 From: tobit linke <tobitlinke@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: [CR] brake levers (Tobit Linke) To: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Message-ID: <BAY114-W46EB064B0FF057D8F5421BCED20@phx.gbl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252"
Hi, Bicycles with two hand actuated brakes customarily use the "continental" se tup also in Germany. If pictures in "Der Radfahrende Athlet" (1974) and "Fahrradtechnik" (1983) are an indication, this is true for utility ten-speeds as much as for performance bikes.
Only coaster brake bikes place the front brake lever on the right. There is (or was in on-topic times) no standard for brake or lever placemen t. The law (StVZO) only required 2 independent brakes. A discussion between Marek Utkin and Sheldon Brown about the merits of eith er setup in Bicycle Culture Quarterly was supposedly spawned by an EU regulation requiring "continental" setup that I've never heard of any other place.
Sheldon Brown has the (to me) most plausible explanation for customary leve r placement:"
In countries where vehicles drive on the right, it is common to set th e brakes up so that the front brake is operated by the left lever.
In countries where vehicles drive on the left, it is common to set the brakes up so that the front brake is operated by the right lever.
The theory that seems most probable to me is that these national standards arose from a concern that the cyclist be able to make hand signals, and still be able to reach the primary brake. This logical idea is, unfortunately, accompanied by the incorrect premise that the rear brake is the primary brake. "
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/
Tobit Linke Dortmund, Germany
_________________________________________________________________ Drag n? drop?Get easy photo sharing with Windows Live? Photos.
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End of Classicrendezvous Digest, Vol 73, Issue 80 *************************************************