Re: [CR] Lugged Lambert on eBay

(Example: Framebuilding:Paint)

Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 08:59:08 -0800
From: "paul grens" <>
To: <>
In-Reply-To: <>
Subject: Re: [CR] Lugged Lambert on eBay

Greetings everyone,

For all you Lambert lovers out there, have a look at eBay item #: 1902810 10378

I have no relation to the seller, just came across it during my occasiona l search for an orphaned Viscount square-taper non-drive side crank arm ( anyone have one around? Need not be pretty, it's for a rider/commuter).


Paul Grens Chicago, Illinois, USA

--- On Wed, 1/21/09, <classicrendezv> wrote:

From: <classicrendezvous-request@bik> Subject: Classicrendezvous Digest, Vol 73, Issue 95 To: Date: Wednesday, January 21, 2009, 1:52 AM

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Today's Topics:

1. Re: Paint Recommendation For Pinstriping (Jordan Lorenz) 2. Re: Guy Apples Bianchi Prototype (Guy Apple) 3. sighting on the Sacramento craigslist (Don Martinich) 4. Ciclo Di Cuoio......Leather Handlebar Covering ( 5. Re: Ebay outing (mine) plus JRJ track frame pics (cmontgomery) 6. Re: Who has trouble stopping with vintage sidepulls? (Kurt Sperry) 7. Chas. Messenger book SOLD ( 8. Ideale Columbia (Jerome & Elizabeth Moos) 9. Old School components update (Jesse Hearndon) 10. FS: on Ebay Allegro, 26.6/267/27.2 posts, campy hubs ect. ( 11. 53-54? Raleigh Lenton Sports complete bike for sale ( 12. Re: Lugged Viscount (John Thompson) 13. ot Sacramento shops (pbbikes) 14. Re: ot Sacramento shops (Dan Kehew)


Message: 1 Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 16:04:35 -0700 From: Jordan Lorenz <> Subject: Re: [CR] Paint Recommendation For Pinstriping To: <> Message-ID: <> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"; format=flowed; delsp=yes

Thanks all, for the insight. I realize my initial post was vague and I should have perused the archives first. Always, in a good way, learning about posting to the list. I will do some research. Jordan Lorenz Tucson, AZ


Message: 2 Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 15:28:34 -0800 From: Guy Apple <> Subject: Re: [CR] Guy Apples Bianchi Prototype To: Edward Albert <>, <> Cc: Message-ID: <

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"

Hi guys,

What Eddie said and here is a link to the campyonly site that has a bit mor e on that bike and gear changer. I am reluctant to say proto too loudly though. I can not verify any of that claim.

Guy Apple Palo Alto CA USA

-----Original Message-----
>From: Edward Albert <>
>Sent: Jan 20, 2009 2:55 PM
>Subject: Re: [CR] Guy Apples Bianchi Prototype
>Not to preempt Guy, but I once owned that bike and when I purchased it fro m
>England I was led to understand that (and I hope I get this right) the PR
>shifter system, using one lever, replaced the Cambio Corsa. Originally th e
>shifter cage was mounted above the cogs on the top of the chain requiring
>one to back pedal to shift. Moving it below the cogs to the lower portion
>of the change allowed shifting while one still pedaled forward. I think
>:). It day was over before it started insofar as Campy introduced the new
>Gran Sport that we are all familiar with.
>Edward Albert
>Chappaqua, New York, U.S.A.
>On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 5:40 PM, <> wrote:
>> What's the story behind Guy Apples Bianchi (seen on the CR homepage). I
>> checked the archives but didn't come up with anything. Anyone ?Jim
>> AmmiratoW.Newton,MA
>> _______________________________________________


Message: 3 Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 15:46:33 -0800 From: Don Martinich <> Subject: [CR] sighting on the Sacramento craigslist To: <> Message-ID: <> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"; format=flowed; delsp=yes

A nice looking 52cm '74 Schwinn Paramount showed up today on the Sac Craigslist for $750. see: 1000778627

Another bike of interest was a Dave Tesch John Howard that was also going for $750. Apparently it has just been deleted in the last 10 minutes. Sorry! ( It may be back as this ad has been appearing off and on for weeks.)

I have no connection with either seller.

Don Martinich Davis, CA


Message: 4 Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 18:52:47 -0500 From: <> Subject: [CR] Ciclo Di Cuoio......Leather Handlebar Covering To: <> Message-ID: <> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Developed by RJ Carnevale, this handlebar covering will add that finishing touch to your vintage bicycle. Kit includes everything you need for a custom looking, one piece covering (that has no unsightly edges like bar tape).

Colors include:1 Black Smooth 2 White Smooth 3 Red Suede 4 Black Suede 5 Gray Suede 6 Light Gray Suede 7 Royal Blue Suede

For a limited time, we are offering an introductory price of $59, postpaid to USA CR readers. This is a $70 value. Just mention the CR list at time of ordering.

Colors and more info at Ciclo Di Cuoio website: . While there, check out what may be the very first bike, the Pierre Lallemen t.

We accept Visa/MC, check/MO and Paypal. Dealer inquires invited.

Thank you Dale!

Eastern USA:


Ralph Carnevale


Western USA:


Wes Oishi





Message: 5 Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 19:43:18 -0700 From: cmontgomery <> Subject: Re: [CR] Ebay outing (mine) plus JRJ track frame pics To: Peter Brown <>, <> Message-ID: <010301c97b72$04921320$8d01a246@D687QV01> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Pete Brown: and the other being added to my collection, photos of which you can see at .

Man, I love the little moon cutouts/points they did on the top of those Oscar Egg lugs. Assuming JRJ did that. Have never seen Oscars with that treatment.

Craig Montgomery Tucson


Message: 6 Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 18:15:46 -0800 From: Kurt Sperry <> Subject: Re: [CR] Who has trouble stopping with vintage sidepulls? Cc: <> Message-ID: <> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"

Isn't the braking power of a brake design essentially down to:

The rider's hand strength

The mechanical advantage of the levers

The effective mechanical advantage of the brake between each side of its arms' pivots

Any undue flexure in caliper arms or pivot mounts reducing efficiency

Friction in the actuating system

The friction coefficient between brake pad and rim?

So assuming that the cables, housings and runs are similar, the pads themselves are similar (all easily enough changed), the caliper is designed to be sufficiently rigid to do its job and the pivoting arms are properly adjusted so they can rotate without undue friction or play, the only relevant remaining variables I see are the mechanical leverages of the levers and calipers.

You can design for high total mechanical advantage in the system (caliper arms and levers together) and have a brake that is perceived as powerful at the cost of brake rub if there is any out of trueness in the rim as the pad travel is proportionately short or you can design a brake system with lower total mechanical advantage that will be more forgiving of an out of true rim. Every thing else- aero or traditional cable routing style, any QR mechanism for wheel removal or allowance for a bent rim, aesthetics like finish and detail engineering like ease of adjustment and set-up shouldn't affect braking power.

Thus I expect any significant advances in braking power since the '50s to have been either down to lower friction cables/housings, better brake friction pads/rims or simply changes in the lever ratio compromises chosen. Thus I'd fully expect any reasonably well engineered '50s vintage caliper brake with modern pads and cables and rims (assuming those are better) and an equivalent total leverage ratio to squeeze the rims and brake just as well as the latest and greatest designs. It would have been simple enough to change the geometry of the brake systems to give "modern" leverage ratios 50 years ago, so I assume that approach was looked at then and if not adopted, it was simply because a different compromise was deemed advantageous overall. Archimedes pretty much had it all sussed.

And I'm not seeing modern "dual pivots" from a mechanical standpoint as anything more than repackaged center pulls with simpler cable runs and perhaps different leverage compromises.

I'd have trouble calling any brake system where the rider can lock either wheel at will- like I can with, well just about any well set-up caliper brake I've ever tried- underpowered. Assuming enough usable braking torque is available to bring the wheels controllably to the point of lock up, everything else could surely just as easily be called personal preference.

Kurt Sperry Bellingham, Washington USA

2009/1/20 Peter Brueggeman <>:
> Mitch Harris asks "... if anyone has trouble stopping with vintage single
> pivot sidepulls..."For context, I ride hills and mountains and have used SPs
> and CPs and cantilevers and disc brakes. Using SPs from Campagnolo,
> Weinmann, Modolo, Galli, GB, Lytaloy, Sun, Gipiemme, and Beborex, along with
> good brake pads,I've had no problems with properly adjusted SP brakes. I've
> had issues with brake levers, specifically leverage (hand fatigue) or reach,
> but not the brake calipers.Peter..........
> Peter Brueggeman
> La Jolla California USA
> 4peebee(at)
> _______________________________________________


Message: 7 Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 20:25:23 -0600 From: <> Subject: [CR] Chas. Messenger book SOLD To: <> Message-ID: <> Content-Type: text/plain

Thanks.Jim AmmiratoW.Newton,MA


Message: 8 Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 18:49:38 -0800 From: Jerome & Elizabeth Moos <> Subject: [CR] Ideale Columbia To: <> Message-ID: <> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

I received today this Ideale Columbia, bought off French eBay a couple of w eek ago:<blah> em0279106792

This is essentially an Ideale model 134, but stamped to honor the US Space Shuttle Columbia. The Columbia, of course, broke up on reentry in 2003, ki lling all aboard, but these saddles were made several years before that, so they were presumably made to celebrate the Columbia's successes, not to commemorate the subsequent tradgey. Anyone know more of the story of why a French sadd le manufacturer should celebrate the American space shuttle? Many of the Fren ch, at least the French elite, were evidently great admirers of the American sp ace program, and in fact those who used to watch the American TV series In The Day that followed the worldwide exploits of the great French explorer and scien tist Jacques Cousteau, know that Cousteau often spoken with admiration of the American space program.

The other interesting aspect of this saddle is that it was evidently not ma de in France by the original firm Tron et Berthet (yes, THAT Berthet). The giveaway is that on one side it is stamped "French Design", implying it was not actually made in France. Evidently another manufacturer/ manufacturers obtained the rights to the name after the demise of Tron & Berthet, with Leppers of Holland being most often mentioned, but it is said a German firm made some late Ideales as well. I'm hearing that T&B produced the first Columbias, not long before their demise. Those who foll ow Ideale will know that the Ideale model 92 Diagonale was also produced both originally by T&B and later by Leppers and perhaps others. The late Diagonales also were marked "French Design".

I've kind of binged on Ideales the last month or two, as I bought a mod 44, this Columbia, and in the last couple of days a mod 92 Diagonale (the origi nal French-made B&T version), and an alloy-railed Ideale 90. I've been looking for an alloy Ideale, but they have become very pricely of late, whi ch I blame in large part on Jan Heine, as his book "The Golden Age of Handmade Bicycles" shows alloy-railed Ideales on probably at least half the bikes pictured, which seems to have greatly increased the interest in these saddl es. But I have to confess it was largely this book and his discussion of these saddle in Bicycle Quarterly that raised my own interest in them. The alloy model 90 wasn't cheap, but IMHO a better deal than one that went for $222 a couple of weeks ago even though the leather top to me seemed totally trashe d, meaning it would be useful only for total restoration.


Jerry Moos Big Spring, Texas, USA, commuting the last month on a Ti railed Brooks Swif t as fitting on the English-built Arthur Caygill


Message: 9 Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 22:05:58 -0500 From: Jesse Hearndon <> Subject: [CR] Old School components update To: c r <> Message-ID: <BAY102-W87B1F310135241424BB65B0D10@phx.gbl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252"

I got everything in today, I don't have a digital camera with me until to morrow, so keep emailing me with what you need and I'll post everything o n a first-come-first-serve basis. I believe someone on here actually wanted everything I had.

I have about 3 boxes of items. Right off the top of my head, not a whole lot of Shimano stuff but I do have a first-gen Dura-Ace front derailleur, as well as some weird Shimano 600 clamp derailleur, 2nd-generation with blue-green-purple bars. I also have some sort of a Campy front derailleur.

I think there are some older 105 hubs back at the shop. A lot of chainrings , cogs. I also have two pair of mint Mavic GP 4 sew-up rims. 32hole. Thes e are the rims you glue tires to. Drilled for a Presta valve. A LOT of Sunt our stuff, Cyclone 7000 derailleurs, BL, and some Superbe components. I even have a set or two of Accushift downtube shifters.

Tomorrow I'll do a precise inventory of it all, there is a whole lot, a nd post everything accordingly. I've been getting 5 or 7 emails every hour

on the hour since I first made mention of this. I did so originally to gaug e interest and it appears I have gauged a TON of interest, so as mentione d, tomorrow I'll post it all with prices.

BTW all proceeds go toward my contribution for the MS150, if you don't kn ow what that is, mepage

Jesse Hearndon West Melbourne, FL _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live?: Keep your life in sync.


Message: 10 Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 03:16:54 +0000 From: "" <> Subject: [CR] FS: on Ebay Allegro, 26.6/267/27.2 posts, campy hubs ect. To: <> Message-ID: <> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"

billy rounds has some on-topic bits for sale on ebay. #120366695432 get you there mike goldman warwick, rhode island 02889 usa ____________________________________________________________ Save up to 20% on Emergency Alert Systems. Click Now! 75fmbuLF95343onhWkDDNRHcI/


Message: 11 Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 23:11:25 -0500 From: <> Subject: [CR] 53-54? Raleigh Lenton Sports complete bike for sale To: <> Message-ID: <> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

21"cttop 22" top tube 531.Blue with white lug lining correct transfers.?B15N saddle,Raleigh Maes bars GB?stem.Chrome?Raleigh brakes .Rea r Wheel 27" 40 hole Dunlop SpecLighweight rim?with Sturmey3 speed AW hub & correct changer,? Front wheel, Sturmey 27" 32 hole?rim &?hub.Dunlop tyres. Williams 1000 chainset, Raleigh pedals,? Chrome lamp bracket on front fork.? Will include. 1954 Dyno hub and Raleigh chrome stem .plus extra Raleigh brakes.?Looks great.?NOT 100% correct but close. $750.00 plus shipping, John Crump OldneedabikerackformyBoxsterBrit. Parker, Co USA


Message: 12 Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 22:22:38 -0600 From: John Thompson <> Subject: Re: [CR] Lugged Viscount To: <> Message-ID: <> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"

Jerome & Elizabeth Moos wrote:
> This is a new one to me also. I've never seen a lugged, or partially
> lugged, Viscount, although I have two lugged Lamberts, one badged as
> such and another badged as Viking. But I thought all the bikes from
> the Viscount era of this company were fillet-brazed throughout. I'd
> question whether this bike is really a Viscount, except that it is
> stated that the DO's are Lambert, which I doubt would have been used
> by any other company. It would be interesting to know the full story
> of this frame - perhaps it is a prototype used by a sponsored rider
> as you suggest.

Some years after the Yamaha buyout, the Viscount product line was expanded to more entry level bikes built in Japan from lugged steel, but this frame doesn't look at all like those. The seat cluster in particular shouts "Trusty" product, but the head lugs are not typical of either Viking or Lambert. They look almost bilaminate. A mystery indeed.

-- John Thompson ( Appleton WI USA


Message: 13 Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 22:46:00 -0800 From: pbbikes <> Subject: [CR] ot Sacramento shops To: CR <> Message-ID: <> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"

Hey fellers,

I am in Sacramento for a few days and would love some on topic bike shop suggestions. I will also be in sf for a couple days this weekend and have some time to kill.

Also, off topic but just as good , I need to find some good espresso shops in both places

Thanks all

Barry Scott Mount shasta. Ca. Usa


Message: 14 Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 23:52:19 -0800 From: Dan Kehew <> Subject: Re: [CR] ot Sacramento shops To: pbbikes <> Cc: CR <> Message-ID: <> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"

FIRST: Do not go to San Francisco until Saturday. You'll need Saturday morning for a stop in between Sac and SF.

Saturday morning, 9 to noon -- scoot over to Davis, down I-80 and about 15 minutes drive out of downtown Sacramento. Find your way to the building at the intersection 3rd Street and B Street, conveniently named the 3rd & B Building. Proceed to the basement, if you can get past the delicious smells wafting over from the neighboring Farmers' Market. (Yeah, that'll make parking a bit hard. Put up with it.) In the basement -- good stuff. Dating back as far as 1823-ish, as in there are no pedals on that machine. Dating up as far as a Cervelo that says "O'GRADY" in little letters just before the seatpost and which had a good day on the road between Paris and Roubaix in 2007, if you know what I mean. The on-topic stuff is worth seeing, too. If you don't do any other bike spotting on this trip, DO THIS.

While you're in Sac during the week:

SECOND: College Cyclery, I'd say, in Sacramento on 21st Street, about four blocks south of Broadway. Walk in, look up, then around. Get used to your head being tilted like that. You won't mind.

THIRD: Not vintage content, but KOF ... Steve Rex's storefront and shop, 1811 E Street, in Sacramento. Don't know if Steve's back building yet after his accident, but the place should be open. All the cool kit you might want on your custom Rex frame, he's got hanging on walls to tempt you.

FOURTH: Just in case you started on smaller wheels before graduating to 700c ... I'm talking BMX ... take the time to drive up Highway 50 to Fair Oaks and visit Patriot Cycles. Camouflaging this entry as on topic, check out the Cinelli (BMX) bike built up with all-Campagnolo (gold anodized BMX) kit!

Have fun....

Dan Kehew Davis California USA

On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 10:46 PM, pbbikes <> wrote:
> Hey fellers,
> I am in Sacramento for a few days and would love some on topic bike
> shop suggestions. I will also be in sf for a couple days this weekend
> and have some time to kill.
> Also, off topic but just as good , I need to find some good espresso
> shops in both places
> Thanks all
> Barry Scott
> Mount shasta. Ca. Usa
> _______________________________________________



End of Classicrendezvous Digest, Vol 73, Issue 95 *************************************************