I think that we've been down this road before, Jerry. In my experience
, the only alloy-railed Ideales that could be described as reasonably com
fortable over fairly long distances are those later Model 90s with spring-l
oaded noses. Not all the '90s' have those springs (the majority don't, I'
d suggest), and yours appears to be one of those that doesn't, although
, if the leather has stretched to a degree, it might be possible to 'im
provise' such an arrangement?
Ideale seem to have come late to the realisation that there was a need f
or some sort of suspension in these girder-type frames - Brooks introduced
it in their first attempt at such frames, in the early 'thirties, but s
oon abandoned it and 'gave up' on girder frames altogether pretty quickly.
I don't think that Mansfield ever produced a sprung girder frame.
I've always imagined that Ideale used steel rivets on either side of the
nose of most of their saddles for the good practical reason that they are
very much easier to 'set' than copper ones, when working at the sort of a
ngle presented by most nosepieces; on many of the wire-railed Ideales (an
d some of the earlier alloy-railed ones, as well) there is a mixture of s
teel/copper rivets into the cantle-plate - most usually the steel rivets ar
e in positions to which direct access 'inside' the cantle is hampered by th
e rails.
Tony Colegrave, Northiam, East Sussex, U.K.
> Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 06:52:02 -0800
> From: jerrymoos@sbcglobal.net
> To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org; edvintage63@aol.com
> Subject: [CR] Ideale Alloy Rail saddles
>
> Just received yesterday from a French eBay seller the first alloy-railed
Ideale saddle I've ever owned. This one was not cheap, but a little more
reasonable than some examples have gone for of late. I blame Jan Heine in
part for the recent escalation of alloy Ideale prices. His wonderful book
The Golden Age of Handbuilt Bicycles, although not exactly on the New Yo
rk Times Best Seller list, I think has enormous influence in collector ci
rcles, and it seems about half the bikes pictured have alloy railed Ideal
e saddles. I think this has spurred interest in those saddles and driven u
p the price.
>
> This one was slightly more than $250 and certainly not NOS - the stamping
s on the side are worn down so far ot is hard to tell the model number, w
hich is claimed to be a model 90, which is consistent with other details.
But the Rebour stamp on the top rear is still very clear, and the saddle
is still supple,with no cracking and retains its original shape quite ni
cely.
>
> I have a question for those who have used these extensively. How is the
ride? Some have said that the ride is very harsh and uncomfortable due to
what is essentially an I-beam undercarriage. If so, I'd think these woul
d be very tiring on a long event. Now I get the impression that the Techni
cal Trials and some other similar events may have been of moderate length
, but bikes like those pictured in Jan's book were also extensively used
in the long events we usually associate with randonneuring, culminating i
n PBP. I know at least a couple of CR members have done PBP and probably a
lot more have done randonneur events of several hundred Km. Are these all
oy rail saddles very tiring in those long events? Does anyone feel compell
ed to switch to steel rail saddles for long distances?
>
> One other question I've long pondered but never asked. I note this model
90 has copper rivets for all but the two rivets on either side of the nose
, which appear to be steel, although the rivet on top of the nose is co
pper like those in the cantle plate. I believe every other high end Ideale
I've seen is the same way - all copper except on either side of the nose.
Why did Ideale do this? I doubt they were trying to save a couple of Fran
cs (espeically the old Francs worth only a few US cents) on their top model
s. Did they judge that the rivets on either side of the nose needed to be s
tronger than the others? Presumably steel ones would be stronger than copp
er. If this was the reason, Brooks seem not to have shared their concern
.
>
> Regards,
>
> Jerry Moos
> Big Spring, Texas, USA