Thanks, Jan, I think your comments indicate that Tony Colegrave's opinion a bout the harshness of these saddle was agreed with by a number of notable r iders, although we have certainly heard dissenting opinions on CR. But I t hink, thanks to the Golden Age of Handbuilt Bicycles, that a vintage collec tion is now somewhat incomplete without at least one of these saddles. My riding is now quite regular, but the trips are short, so I may find the all oy Ideale quite suitable, we shall see. But I think it is clear that the T i railed Brooks are both lighter and for most riders more comfortable than alloy Ideales, although they are not really classic, although it can be arg ued they are KOF. And the actual "street" price of a Ti Brooks, as opposed to list price, is now usually less than an alloy Ideale. The Ti B17 that arrived today was bought for $200, NOS, but with no box, while the clearly used alloy mod 90 was about $250, which was maybe at the low end of the range for such saddles.
Actually I think this is exactly sort of discussion that takes place regula rly in Bicycle Quaterly, inovative technology from the classic era as well as classic style technology from the modern era. Much of what makes me a s atisfied subscriber.
Regards,
Jerry Moos
> From: Jan Heine <heine94@earthlink.net>
> Subject: Re: [CR] Ideale Alloy Rail saddles
> To: "Marc St. Martin" <marc.stmartin@earthlink.net>, jerrymoos@sbcglobal.
net, classicrendezvous@bikelist.org, edvintage63@aol.com
> Date: Wednesday, January 28, 2009, 11:57 AM
> At 8:12 AM -0800 1/28/09, Marc St. Martin wrote:
>
> > >I have a question for those who have used these
> extensively. How is the ride? Some have said that the ride
> is very harsh and uncomfortable due to what is essentially
> an I-beam undercarriage. If so, I'd think these would
> be very tiring on a long event.
>
> I have only used one alloy saddle, a 1952 Model 57, for any
> length of time, when I rode a 1952 Rene Herse in a 300 km
> brevet. After 10 hours of non-stop riding, it did seem less
> comfortable than the Brooks saddles (steel rails) from the
> same era that I have used on other bikes. Whether it is the
> leather or the undercarriage is hard to say.
>
> Several riders on the Herse team switched from Ideale with
> aluminum frames to steel-framed Brooks in the 1950s in the
> Poly de Chanteloup. They all claim the Brooks was more
> comfortable, but the Brooks saddles also had a reputation
> for better leather.
>
>
> > Now I get the impression that the Technical Trials and
> some other similar events may have been of moderate length,
>
> The Technical Trials gave so many bonus points for light
> weight that makers chose the lightest, not the most
> comfortable saddles. Paulette Porthault, who rode for Herse
> in the 1946 trials, reports her saddle felt as if it was
> made from wood.
>
> > but bikes like those pictured in Jan's book were
> also extensively used in the long events we usually
> associate with randonneuring, culminating in PBP.
>
> Among the riders above are Lucien Detee and Gilbert Bulte,
> who came first (tied with another tandem) in
> Paris-Brest-Paris 1956. However, they reported terrible
> saddle problems. Their tandem is shown in our latest book
> "The Competition Bicycle."
>
> When you look at other PBP bikes, whether from 1948
>
> http://www.vintagebicyclepress.com/
>
> or Macaudière's bike from 1966 in "The Golden Age
> of Handbuilt Bicycles," you see steel-railed Brooks
> saddles on the bikes of the fastest riders.
>
> > I know at least a couple of CR members have done PBP
> and probably a lot more have done randonneur events of
> several hundred Km. Are these alloy rail saddles very
> tiring in those long events? Does anyone feel compelled to
> switch to steel rail saddles for long distances?
>
> I agree with the old randonneurs, and I would pick a steel
> (or ti) railed saddle for long rides.
>
> Jan Heine
> Editor
> Bicycle Quarterly
> 140 Lakeside Ave #C
> Seattle WA 98122
> http://www.vintagebicyclepress.com