My thanks to all the listers that have weighed in on the subject. This is exactly why the CR list is so special. Whether built by Cherubim or Toei, I'm thrilled with it. One lister suggested a few resemblances to early Yoshi builds (similar lugwork, chrome under paint, no serial #, same fork crowns and drops, etc.) but the jury is still very much out.
At the suggestion of some, I've taken a few more lug and crown close-ups, and posted here:
http://picasaweb.google.com/
original photos here:
http://picasaweb.google.com/
In regards to the age issue, I'm still inclined to believe that it's from the 70s, due to:
1) the nutted brakes, lack of dt shifter braze-ons, and lack of seat tube bottle braze-ons. Am I off base on this assertion?
2) this, theoretically, should be one of the earliest "Echelon" frames in that the original owner stated that his friends at DIN initially took a stab at building some frames themselves, and gave one to him. Those frames (though not his) started to fail, and the DIN guys then decided to import some from Japan for possible re-branding and distribution. They felt bad that the owner's frame might fail, and gave him one of the first batch of imported frames (hence the lack of decals). The owner would have no reason to embelish or alter the history (other than faulty memory). He was actually under the impression that DIN never actually sold any frames as "Echelon."
Thanks again for all the great feedback. Any further info., photos, facts, educated guesses, and even wild speculation are appreciated.
Regards,
Bob Troy Chicago, IL USA
> Message: 4
> Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2009 13:38:27 -0700
> From: David Benson <bensondoc@yahoo.com.au>
> Subject: Re: [CR] Help dating/identifying possible Echelon/Cherubim?
> To: Robert Troy <bobbymtroy@hotmail.com>,
> <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
> Message-ID: <581365.90914.qm@web57702.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Hi Bob
> Possibly I am the only other remaining listmember with an Echelon, though a few possibly past members have had them.
> Mine is an Echelon Spectra which is a racing, rather than sport-touring, frame.
> Photos here: http://www.flickr.com/
>
> Earlier discussion on the CR list of Cherubim and Echelon is in the archives:
> http://search.bikelist.org/
> http://search.bikelist.org/
>
>
I was under the impression that these frames date from the 80s, and the
aerodynamic styled fork on my frame, and the similarities between yours
and mine in terms of lugs and dropouts would seem to support this.
>
> David Benson
> Auckland
> New Zealand
>
> http://retroride.blogspot.com
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Robert Troy <bobbymtroy@hotmail.com>
> To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
> Sent: Friday, 17 July, 2009 11:28:07 AM
> Subject: [CR] Help dating/identifying possible Echelon/Cherubim?
>
>
> Are any listmembers acquainted with either 70s Echelons or Cherubims?
>
>
I recently acquired a bike from the original owner, who said that
friends of his from CA owned DIN Importers in the 1970s and gave him
this unlabeled frameset, which they'd purchased in bulk from an unknown
(to him) shop in Japan and which they intended to brand as "Echelon,"
and re-sell.
>
> A little CR list research indicates
that DIN importers did indeed import bikes and sell them under the
label, "Echelon." Supposedly, they bought them from Cherubim.
Supposedly, Yoshi Konno was a builder at Cherubim in the mid/late 70s?
>
>
>
> Over the top bb cable guides, brazed-on top tube guides, clamp on DT
> shifters, braze-on bottle holders, nutted brakes; this frame is right
>
on the cusp of 70s/80s? The owner was adamant that he was given the
frameset in 1975. The parts (early 70s NR, Gran Compe brakes, early
logo Cinelli bar/stem combo, etc.) were all transfers/add-ons, and
won't help date the frameset.
>
>
>
>
There is no serial number anywhere, and no markings on the fork tube.
It has Shimano SF dropouts, and appears to be fully chromed underneath
the original paint. 56/55 cm frame (ctc). 69 mm bb width? Right on the
cusp of fitting me. I put on a longer stem and will take for a long
ride tomorrow.
>
>
>
> Photos were taken quickly on the way to work. Didn't even wipe off the cobwebs.
>
> http://picasaweb.google.com/
>
> So, what do you think? I have no doubt that it was an "Echelon."
> But, anybody out there have any corroborating or contradictory evidence
> that this was built by Cherubim? Any clue what year? Any chance that it
> was built by Yoshi himself?
>
>
>
> Thanks in advance for any light that you can shed.
>
> Cheers,
> Bob Troy
> Chicago, IL
*************