Re: [CR]re: tying and soldering

(Example: Production Builders:Cinelli)

From: "kevin sayles" <kevinsayles@tiscali.co.uk>
To: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
References: <495EACE9.40708@verizon.net>
In-Reply-To: <495EACE9.40708@verizon.net>
Subject: Re: [CR]re: tying and soldering
Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2009 09:49:24 +0000
reply-type=response

Harvey and listers,

I once had a pair of wheels tied and soldered, a lovley pair of track wheels built by the late Mr Hodgsen, English listers may know of Pam Clay [Mr Hodgsen's daughter, and Johnny Clay's mum] Mr Hodgsen was a fine wheelbuilder and told me he used to build Tom Simpsons wheels!

My wheels [still got the rims now built on to Superbr Pro hubs] were Milremo LF 28 hole double fixed hubs, on Scheeren Record [wood filled] rims, with rustless spokes [much better for soldering than chrome!] tied and soldered.

I used these wheels in various races, usually time trials on fixed, but I also rode them on the hard track at Scunthorpe, and even used them in the National Hill climb champs..........My opinion is they where definately stiffer and despite the fragile rims I had total confidence in them.

Cheers Kevin Sayles Bridgwater -3 degrees and heating packed up Somerset UK


----- Original Message -----
From: Harvey Sachs
To: Classic Rendezvous


<earle.young@tds.net> Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2009 12:10 AM Subject: [CR]re: tying and soldering


> Earle Young offers an intriguing explanation for the tradition of tying
> and soldering spokes at the outer crossover points:
>
> "What I have found from my research is that tying and soldering is a
> tradition for track riders, primarily large-pack events on small tracks,
> at a time when rims were not as strong as they are today. Because of the
> conditions, most observers would think that the tying and soldering was
> for extra strength. Actually, it seems that it is more for the convenience
> of the mechanic. When built with hex-head spokes like the classic Robergel
> Sport, a broken rim on a tied and soldered wheel can be removed and
> replaced very quickly using a hex driver and a drill, probably a push
> drill, but a reversible electric or pneumatic drill will also speed the
> process."
> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>
> My experience is almost all on the road, but many of the wheel failures
> I've seen over the decades have started with spokes breaking, not rims
> getting busted. Fatigue or impact? In any event, if Earle's hypothesis
> were right, I would expect to see the spokes tied with fine malleable wire
> loops, but not soldered. Soldering would just make it take longer to
> change out a spoke, and would be no fun at a track where there was no
> convenient place to plug in a soldering iron. Or set up a charcoal bed to
> heat an iron.
>
> Whether it is true or not, I think that the old-timers thought that tying
> AND soldering led to better wheels. But, I could be wrong.
>
> harvey sachs
> mcLean va usa