Fred,
If you have 10 minutes to watch http://abqkeirin.com/
frogeye@porterscustom.com
Porter Customs 2909 Arno NE Albuquerque, NM USA 87107 505-352-1378 1954 BN2 1959 AN5 Porter Custom Bicycles
cars:
http://www.britishcarforum.com/
blog: http://porterbikes.com/
-----Original Message----- From: classicrendezvous-bounces@bikelist.org [mailto:classicrendezvous-bounces@bikelist.org] On Behalf Of Fred Rednor Sent: Wednesday, January 28, 2009 12:46 PM To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: Re: [CR] Keirin (track design) Questions
A few last words (from me anyway) on Keirin before we declare it fully off
topic...
Although, note that the bikes themselves are perhaps the last machines
that are FULLY "keeper of the flame" still used in elite level
competition. As Aussie track racer says, Japanese Keirin is "The Land
That Time Forgot."
http://www.cyclingnews.com/
Now, Ted made some good points. I think people overlook a few items about Keirin, which mainly relate to the betting. These items are the main factors that distinguish the original Japanese form from the the UCI/Iinternational style.
For one thing, in Japanese style Keirin, there are 9 guys on the track at one time. So you need the extra space on the track. Also, the rules are designed to have 3 parallel pace lines form during the course of the race, until about the last 200 meters, when it should "devolve" to a situation in which each rider is racing for himself. So again, you need both the width and the length afforded by a 400 meter velodrome. I think Ted's email implied this. And something he pointed out expressly is that it's easier to see infractions and illegal team tactics. This is actually quite important, even if (as in all sporting events) some competitors are "more equal" than others.
But I must say, I love track racing in all its forms and would love to get over to Japan or Korea and see some of these races in person. Cheers, Fred Rednor - Arlington, Virginia (USA)
--- On Wed, 1/28/09, ternst <ternst1@cox.net> wrote:
> From: ternst <ternst1@cox.net>
> Subject: Re: [CR] Keirin (track design) Questions
> To: bikes@msu.edu
> Cc: dale@nas-track.com, fred_rednor@yahoo.com
> Date: Wednesday, January 28, 2009, 1:57 PM
> That's it alright.
> The larger tracks give the room to manuver and do the good
> run out where actual top speed can come into play without
> tricksterism being too much a deciding factor.
> Surely Keirin has many nuances for shrewd tactics, but
> it's easier to see infractions and teaming.
> It gives a rider a shot at creating a hole and getting thru
> if he has the stuff to execute his game plan.
> Ted Ernst
> Palos Verdes Estates
> CA USA
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Tim Potter
> To: ternst1@cox.net
> Cc: dale@nas-track.com ; fred_rednor@yahoo.com
> Sent: Wednesday, January 28, 2009 8:24 AM
> Subject: Re: [CR] Keirin (track design) Questions
>
>
> Having ridden on one of the 500m keirin tracks in Japan
> many times and observed many pro races there I agree with
> you Ted, on the lack of intimacy with the larger tracks, but
> in the case of keirin in Japan or Korea where gambling is
> the main focus for the fans I don't believe they're
> too concerned with being close to the action as much as
> their guy(s) winning and making them rich (gambler and
> racer).
>
>
>
> For amateur/ pro racing where gambling isn't involved
> I'd say the smaller track sizes would certainly be
> desirable to draw more fans and keep them coming back for
> more.
>
>
>
> Perhaps America's preeminent track designer (Atlanta
> Olympic Velodrome, Bloomer Park and other newer tracks
> overseas), Dale Hughes, would like to comment?
>
>
>
> Tim
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Message: 7
>
> Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2009 19:46:52 -0800
>
> From: ternst <ternst1@cox.net>
>
> Subject: Re: [CR] Keirin Questions
>
> To: Fred Rednor <fred_rednor@yahoo.com>,
>
> <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
>
> Message-ID:
> <0AB6EB38BCCA412DA1BF43EC0508D4E7@D8XCLL51>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed;
> charset="iso-8859-1";
>
> reply-type=original
>
>
>
>
>
> I don't think the world is too interested in
> conforming to Keirin.
>
> For what they do the 333m track is a good size with the
> motor pacing and
>
> lead out.
>
> The 250 M is the world standard now.
>
> 45 degrees in the two turns, wood and I think somewhat or
> all enclosed for
>
> wind consistency and record setting.
>
> The big tracks were nice but after looking at all the
> various events the 250
>
> m size is big enough to give the riders a good run but
> not so big to be
>
> boring.
>
> The bigger tracks are like riding on the road and if
> spectators are to be
>
> excited and enjoying the action it has to be small enough
> to keep interest,
>
> but not so small as to deny tactics.
>
> The old sixes were held in many small halls and the
> tracks were less than
>
> 200 m and most in the US were 150 to 175 so the action
> was fast and furious.
>
> The 250m x 45degree banking is rated for 100 KPH so that
> any speed allows
>
> for full power and speed with maximum control.
>
> Team races are exciting, makes gaining a lap a doable
> challenge.
>
> Team pursuit looks dangerous and fast when the rider
> swings up to the rail
>
> and then dives down to catch the teammates wheel at 35
> miles an hour and
>
> only leave a few inches gap when done correctly. Try it
> some time.
>
> The sprints are also exciting as it give plenty room to
> jump, attack, catch,
>
> pass.
>
> It seems to be the best compromise size.
>
> Ted Ernst
>
> Palos Verdes Estates
>
> CA USA
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> From: "Fred Rednor"
> <fred_rednor@yahoo.com>
>
> To: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2009 5:20 PM
>
> Subject: Re: [CR] Keirin Questions
>
>
>
>
>
> >
>
> > > FYI: Italy is in the process of
> constructing a new
>
> > > world class track of 250 meters in
> length.
>
> > > I just wrote about it today
> coincidentally:
>
> > >
>
> >
>
http://italiancyclingjournal.blogspot.com/
>
> > >
>
> > > > Is there any movement to standardize
> race tracks from
>
> > > > the 250 meter to the larger
> 350-500Meter tracks Keirin
>
> > > > races use? Seems like until we
> standardize the racing
>
> > > > conditions, there never will be
> anything like a true
>
> > > > World Championship of track racing.
>
> >
>
> > Two comments:
>
> > 1) Brescia is a great region for cycling. Is all of
> Lago di Garda
>
> > actually within that province?
>
> > 2) I believe that all UCI sanctioned championships
> already must be
>
> > conducted on 250 meter velodromes. That's
> another difference between
>
> > Japanese (and Korean) Keirin and
> "International" Keirin.
>
> > Cheers,
>
> > Fred Rednor - Arlington, VIrginia (USA)