in case some of u r not familiar
cog magazine has coverage each issue
or modern keirin racing
lots of amazing pix
and some detailed info
check em out
http://www.cogmag.com/
sarahgibson acmebicyclecompanydotcom kansas citymissouri
well behaved women rarely make history _ride yr friggin bicycle_
> Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 20:42:40 -0800
> From: fred_rednor@yahoo.com
> To: frogeye@porterscustom.com
> CC: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
> Subject: Re: [CR] Keirin (track design) Questions
>
> Dave,
>
> I actually watched your video the other day and was truly impressed. Tha
t is, I was impressed both by the quality of the film and by your efforts
to bring Keirin to the USA. I even read the Colloquy section of your Web
site. Of course that made me wonder about the success of your efforts sinc
e the transcripts in that Web page date from 1992.
>
> Now... I have never seen a Japanese Keirin race in person, but I've wat
ched _lots_ of film, so I'm familiar with the starts, and the finishes
of these races. I understand that they start side-by-side, using mechani
cal holders, and then get in position behind the pacer.
>
> But there is a very strict set of rules relating to when riders can attac
k. Australian pro racer Ben Kersten explains it better than I. It's worth
reading these two diary entries from him:
> <http://www.cyclingnews.com/riders/2007/diaries/benk/?id=benk0704
>
> <http://www.cyclingnews.com/riders/2007/diaries/benk/?id=benk0705
>
>
> If you watch enough Japanese Keirin video, more often that not you will
see a group of 3 riders drop back and then attack in unison from about 500
meters out. To me, that appears to be the Senko/Makuri/Oikomi groupin
g that Kersten describes.
>
> Actually, it's worth reading all his diary entries. This excerpt from
his first entry is interesting:
> "The first step was to order a steel bike from Look France, s
ince
> all carbon fibre is banned... Look does not make nor sell ste
el
> anymore so they specially made some bikes for Mickael Bourgain
> and me, being their only sponsored riders here..."
> Apparently, the International racers can bring their own bikes, altho
ugh these are still subjected to the same mechanical stress testing machine
that is used for scrutinizing all Keirin bikes.
> Best regards,
> Fred Rednor - Arlington, Virginia (USA)
>
> --- On Wed, 1/28/09, Dave Porter <frogeye@porterscustom.com> wrote:
>
> > Fred,
> > If you have 10 minutes to watch http://abqkeirin.com/
> > video has
> > several Japanese Keirins at the end. I've read the JKA
> > rules and there is
> > nothing about parallel pace lines that I can find. In fact
> > they don't even
> > start as a group and they are paced by another rider rather
> > than a
> > motorcycle. Much cleaner and quieter.. Very exciting to
> > watch. Hope to have
> > it here in NM before too long..
> > DaveP
> >
> > frogeye@porterscustom.com
> >
> > Porter Customs 2909 Arno NE
> > Albuquerque, NM USA 87107
> > 505-352-1378
> > 1954 BN2 1959 AN5
> > Porter Custom Bicycles
> >
> > cars:
> > http://www.britishcarforum.com/
> > gallery:
> > http://picasaweb.google.com/
> >
> > blog: http://porterbikes.com/
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: classicrendezvous-bounces@bikelist.org
> > [mailto:classicrendezvous-bounces@bikelist.org] On Behalf
> > Of Fred Rednor
> > Sent: Wednesday, January 28, 2009 12:46 PM
> > To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
> > Subject: Re: [CR] Keirin (track design) Questions
> >
> > A few last words (from me anyway) on Keirin before we
> > declare it fully off
> > topic...
> > Although, note that the bikes themselves are perhaps the
> > last machines
> > that are FULLY "keeper of the flame" still used
> > in elite level
> > competition. As Aussie track racer says, Japanese Keirin
> > is "The Land
> > That Time Forgot."
> >
> > http://www.cyclingnews.com/
> >
> > Now, Ted made some good points. I think people overlook a
> > few items about
> > Keirin, which mainly relate to the betting. These items
> > are the main
> > factors that distinguish the original Japanese form from
> > the the
> > UCI/Iinternational style.
> >
> > For one thing, in Japanese style Keirin, there are 9 guys
> > on the track at
> > one time. So you need the extra space on the track.
> > Also, the rules are
> > designed to have 3 parallel pace lines form during the
> > course of the race,
> > until about the last 200 meters, when it should
> > "devolve" to a situation
> > in which each rider is racing for himself. So again, you
> > need both the
> > width and the length afforded by a 400 meter velodrome. I
> > think Ted's
> > email implied this. And something he pointed out
> > expressly is that it's
> > easier to see infractions and illegal team tactics. This
> > is actually
> > quite important, even if (as in all sporting events) some
> > competitors are
> > "more equal" than others.
> >
> > But I must say, I love track racing in all its forms and
> > would love to get
> > over to Japan or Korea and see some of these races in
> > person.
> > Cheers,
> > Fred Rednor - Arlington, Virginia (USA)
> >
> > --- On Wed, 1/28/09, ternst <ternst1@cox.net> wrote:
> >
> > > From: ternst <ternst1@cox.net>
> > > Subject: Re: [CR] Keirin (track design) Questions
> > > To: bikes@msu.edu
> > > Cc: dale@nas-track.com, fred_rednor@yahoo.com
> > > Date: Wednesday, January 28, 2009, 1:57 PM
> > > That's it alright.
> > > The larger tracks give the room to manuver and do the
> > good
> > > run out where actual top speed can come into play
> > without
> > > tricksterism being too much a deciding factor.
> > > Surely Keirin has many nuances for shrewd tactics, but
> > > it's easier to see infractions and teaming.
> > > It gives a rider a shot at creating a hole and getting
> > thru
> > > if he has the stuff to execute his game plan.
> > > Ted Ernst
> > > Palos Verdes Estates
> > > CA USA
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: Tim Potter
> > > To: ternst1@cox.net
> > > Cc: dale@nas-track.com ; fred_rednor@yahoo.com
> > > Sent: Wednesday, January 28, 2009 8:24 AM
> > > Subject: Re: [CR] Keirin (track design) Questions
> > >
> > >
> > > Having ridden on one of the 500m keirin tracks in
> > Japan
> > > many times and observed many pro races there I agree
> > with
> > > you Ted, on the lack of intimacy with the larger
> > tracks, but
> > > in the case of keirin in Japan or Korea where gambling
> > is
> > > the main focus for the fans I don't believe
> > they're
> > > too concerned with being close to the action as much
> > as
> > > their guy(s) winning and making them rich (gambler and
> > > racer).
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > For amateur/ pro racing where gambling isn't
> > involved
> > > I'd say the smaller track sizes would certainly be
> > > desirable to draw more fans and keep them coming back
> > for
> > > more.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Perhaps America's preeminent track designer
> > (Atlanta
> > > Olympic Velodrome, Bloomer Park and other newer tracks
> > > overseas), Dale Hughes, would like to comment?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Tim
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Message: 7
> > >
> > > Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2009 19:46:52 -0800
> > >
> > > From: ternst <ternst1@cox.net>
> > >
> > > Subject: Re: [CR] Keirin Questions
> > >
> > > To: Fred Rednor <fred_rednor@yahoo.com>,
> > >
> > > <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
> > >
> > > Message-ID:
> > > <0AB6EB38BCCA412DA1BF43EC0508D4E7@D8XCLL51>
> > >
> > > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed;
> > > charset="iso-8859-1";
> > >
> > > reply-type=original
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I don't think the world is too interested in
> > > conforming to Keirin.
> > >
> > > For what they do the 333m track is a good size with
> > the
> > > motor pacing and
> > >
> > > lead out.
> > >
> > > The 250 M is the world standard now.
> > >
> > > 45 degrees in the two turns, wood and I think
> > somewhat or
> > > all enclosed for
> > >
> > > wind consistency and record setting.
> > >
> > > The big tracks were nice but after looking at all
> > the
> > > various events the 250
> > >
> > > m size is big enough to give the riders a good run
> > but
> > > not so big to be
> > >
> > > boring.
> > >
> > > The bigger tracks are like riding on the road and if
> > > spectators are to be
> > >
> > > excited and enjoying the action it has to be small
> > enough
> > > to keep interest,
> > >
> > > but not so small as to deny tactics.
> > >
> > > The old sixes were held in many small halls and the
> > > tracks were less than
> > >
> > > 200 m and most in the US were 150 to 175 so the
> > action
> > > was fast and furious.
> > >
> > > The 250m x 45degree banking is rated for 100 KPH so
> > that
> > > any speed allows
> > >
> > > for full power and speed with maximum control.
> > >
> > > Team races are exciting, makes gaining a lap a
> > doable
> > > challenge.
> > >
> > > Team pursuit looks dangerous and fast when the rider
> > > swings up to the rail
> > >
> > > and then dives down to catch the teammates wheel at
> > 35
> > > miles an hour and
> > >
> > > only leave a few inches gap when done correctly. Try
> > it
> > > some time.
> > >
> > > The sprints are also exciting as it give plenty room
> > to
> > > jump, attack, catch,
> > >
> > > pass.
> > >
> > > It seems to be the best compromise size.
> > >
> > > Ted Ernst
> > >
> > > Palos Verdes Estates
> > >
> > > CA USA
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > >
> > > From: "Fred Rednor"
> > > <fred_rednor@yahoo.com>
> > >
> > > To: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
> > >
> > > Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2009 5:20 PM
> > >
> > > Subject: Re: [CR] Keirin Questions
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > > > FYI: Italy is in the process of
> > > constructing a new
> > >
> > > > > world class track of 250 meters in
> > > length.
> > >
> > > > > I just wrote about it today
> > > coincidentally:
> > >
> > > > >
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > http://italiancyclingjournal.blogspot.com/
> > -montichiari.html
> > >
> > > > >
> > >
> > > > > > Is there any movement to
> > standardize
> > > race tracks from
> > >
> > > > > > the 250 meter to the larger
> > > 350-500Meter tracks Keirin
> > >
> > > > > > races use? Seems like until we
> > > standardize the racing
> > >
> > > > > > conditions, there never will be
> > > anything like a true
> > >
> > > > > > World Championship of track
> > racing.
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > > Two comments:
> > >
> > > > 1) Brescia is a great region for cycling. Is
> > all of
> > > Lago di Garda
> > >
> > > > actually within that province?
> > >
> > > > 2) I believe that all UCI sanctioned
> > championships
> > > already must be
> > >
> > > > conducted on 250 meter velodromes. That's
> > > another difference between
> > >
> > > > Japanese (and Korean) Keirin and
> > > "International" Keirin.
> > >
> > > > Cheers,
> > >
> > > > Fred Rednor - Arlington, VIrginia (USA)