Hi Dick, thanks for your comments. I'm a reasonable man ;) so I have to admit that you make a strong case for the ebay/Masi party Molteni bike to h ave been built by Colnago. It certainly would be easy to believe that Gi anni Motta did not ride a factory issue Bottecchia, especially if (as Mike Fabian pointed out to me in a private message), Bottecchia did not make tru e high-end frames. As Mike also pointed out, it's possible that Ernesto' s style wasn't quite defined yet, and the frames he built back then could h ave incorporated variations such as the fairly-unique seatstay cap that we see on the two bikes we have seen (the one in the photo with Ernesto and Mo tta, and the one on eBay/Masi party).
Thanks to the additional info you and Mike provided, now I can no longer as sume that the bikes were/are Bottecchias. Yes, thanks a lot for shedding light which puts me back in the dark! ;) I'm kidding of course. It 's great to know this stuff.
Ray Dobbins
Miami Florida USA
From: Derrick Bourgeois <kommisar89@yahoo.com> Subject: [CR]Re: A very Molteni new year, so far To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Date: Saturday, January 3, 2009, 4:10 PM
Hi Guys,
Happy New Year. Boy, I almost hate to respond as I always fee l like the total newbie on the list but I really do find this an interestin g thread. I'm a big fan of Bottecchias (God knows why but whatever) and I'v e collected a lot of pictures of Bottecchias over the last several years. M ost of course are from the boom period and the mid to late 80's but I have
a few from the 60's. None of them resemble that bike.
Ray, when yo u sa y it might be a Bottecchia, do you mean a factory Bott? All of the higher e nd factory Bottecchias I have pictures of from the 60's are very different
from that bike. The fork crown in particular is the same on all the bikes I 've seen from the late 50's through the mid-70's - the flat crown with the sort of 'B' shaped cut-outs facing down. And since that particular bike dat es from a period later than the Bottecchia-Molteni partnership but appear s the same as the older bike, I'd be inclinded suspect a link between those two periods which would be, among other things, Colnago. There are a lot o f pictures of Gianni Motta riding a Bottecchia branded bike for Molteni but unfortunately the old black and white photos are too grainy to make out mu ch detail so they aren't of any help.
Somewhere out there is a bi g co lor photo ad for Gianni Motta Personal of Gianni riding a Bottecchia brande d bike (Bottecchia head badge is clearly visible and of course it is Bottec chia blue) - he's even wearing his Molteni-Bottecchia shorts but the "Botte cchia" has been blacked out in the picture. You can't make out a lot of det ail on the bike there either unfortunately other than that the chrome doesn 't match a factory Bott - Only the fork crown is chrome where a factory Bot tecchia would have had chrome socks and head lugs at least.
Regard s,
Derrick Bourgeois Colorado Springs, CO USA Archive-URL: ht tp://sea rch.bikelist.org/getmsg.asp?Filename=classicrendezvous.10901.0131.eml=0 AD ate: Sat, 3 Jan 2009 11:37:18 -0800 From: Raymond Dobbins <raydobbins20 03 (AT)yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [CR]A very Molteni new year, so far 0A
Hi Mark,
It's not beyond the realm of possibiliy that Erne sto bu ilt the bike in ques tion, but there is nothing to indicate that that i s the case, other than the claim by the seller/owner of the bike in th e Masi Christmas party.
That particular seatstay cap treatment ap pear s to have been a Bottecchia feature, and the holes in the crown appa re ntly don't mean much since other builders used the same style crown.
Ernesto's frames sometimes carried other sponsor's names, but AFAIK, he sti ll built them them his way, and they looked like his frames, n ot like s omebody else's.
Anything is possible, but based o n what we know right now, I think the reas onable assumption is that the bike i n question is a Bottecchia.
Ray Dobbins Miami, Florida USA
- -- On Sat, 1/3/09, FujiFish1@aol.com <FujiFish1(AT)aol.com> wrote:
Fro m: FujiFish1@aol.com <FujiFish1(AT)aol.com> Subject: Re: [CR]A very Molte ni new year, so far To: classicrendezvous(AT)bikelist.org Cc: raydo bbin s2003(AT)yahoo.com Date: Saturday, January 3, 2009, 1:28 PM
Hi Ray, Isn't it possible that the bike was made by Colnago ... es peci ally since he was team mechanic, but labeled as Bottecchia since they we re the sponsor, like happens so often elsewhere that we hear of? Pe rh aps Ernesto only di d that special seat stay treatment on these bikes, wh ich is why it still sh ows up on the Molteni bike on Ebay and at Masi's p lace? The holes in the fork crown certainly seem in keeping with th e early Colnago Supers. Wou ldn't be the last time Ernesto made a bike f or someone big, and for somethi ng big, but didn't get his name on it . .. ala Merckx and his hour record. No clue really, just throwing that p ossibility out there.
Ciao, Mark Agree Southfield MI US A ~ ~ ~
Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2009 22:54:45 -0800 From : Raymond Dobbins <raydobbins2003(AT)yahoo.com> To: Classic Rendezvous Bike List <c lassicrendezvous(AT)bikelist.org> Subject: [CR]A very Molteni new year, s o far
On new year's day I watched La Course en Tete on DVD (t hank s to Chris Pro topapas). It think it had been about 20 years since I f irst (and last) s aw it, so it was like watching it for the first t im e. I think I enjoyed it even more this time around, and I d ef initely picked up on a lot of details that I missed before, such as t he Colner style pantogra phed seat post (with a spade instead of a club ), on one of the Molteni team bikes, and the various milled, drilled an d panto'd parts on Eddy's many
bikes. For a Merckx/Molteni fa n (n ut) like me, this movie was a rea l treat, and a great way to start t he year.
On the second day of the year I visited speedbicycles.co m an d discovered a
great presentation of three different Merckx M olte ni bikes of the early to mid 70s: a Kessels, a Colnago and a De Rosa, a ll original. Stefan Sh aefter's many quality photos of all three mac hi nes provided another goo d dose of pure Molteni entertainment. C he ck out his beautiful photo, "The Moltenis," here (BTW, you can acces s the individual photo albums
by clicking on the respective bik es i n the photo - which is a very nice technical feature):
h
ttp://
http://www.speedbicycles.ch/
Today I took a look at some pho tos I received from Ken Denny, which I t hink are worth sharing with th e list. He sent me these photos in respons e to a post I made a few da ys ago about the purported early Molteni Colnago bike that was on eBay a couple of weeks ago, and then more recently at Alberto Masi's Chris tm as party. It was discussed on the list and
the majority op inio n was that it was not a Colnago frame, based in large pa rt on an u nu sual seatstay cap treatment, which you can see here on one
Scott Davi s' photos:
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/
(or go to Scott's b
log
http://sexyracebicycles.blogspot.com/
You can a lso see it in the auction listing, which is still up:
http://cg i.eb ay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item0265878957
Ken wrote to s ay that he thought the bike was a Bottecchia, based on this p hoto from 1 965, which shows Ernesto Colnago working on what appears to be G ianni Mo tta's Molteni bike:
http://raydobbins.com/
In this close-up of the same photo you can see the exact same seatstay cap
treatment:
http:/ /raydobb ins.com/misc/Bottecchia-Molteni/Ernesto_Motta_Bottecchia-Seat stay_Cap. jp g
And in this one you see the same fork crown with the two hole s on the side:
http://raydobbins.com/
I think at this point it is safe t o assume that the Molteni bike from eBay
and the Masi party, is n ot a Colnago, and in all likelihood it is a Bottecc hia. (It's good to k no w these things ;) My thanks to Ken for his help .)
So, a very Molteni year so far for me - not a bad way to start the year! =0 AHap py 2009 to all.
Ray Dobbins Miami, Florida, USA
New year...new news. Be the first to know what is making headlines.
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