Re: English production wheels, was [CR]Mt Diablo Ride and English wheels

(Example: Framebuilders:Doug Fattic)

Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2009 07:58:58 -0500
From: "Edward Albert" <>
To: <>
Subject: Re: English production wheels, was [CR]Mt Diablo Ride and English wheels
In-Reply-To: <>
References: <>
cc: Classic Rendezvous <>
cc: Classic Rendezvous

There is another aspect to interlacing. Some argue that interlacing weakens the spoke at the crossover point leading to spoke failure. One reason, however, to interlace it that if you do brake a spoke and it is interlaced, the crossover will inhibit the spoke from flapping wildly and damaging paint or chrome on forks or stays. When a non-interlaced spoke brakes it will tend to cause such damage. Edward Albert Chappaqua, New York, U.S.A.

On Fri, Jan 2, 2009 at 7:32 AM, Harvey Sachs <> wrote:
> Ted Trambley wrote <snip>:
> I have a question regarding the wheels of English bicycles. My '69
> Raleigh Sprite, '51 Raleigh Clubman and '51 Humber Clubman all came
> with wheels that are built without tucking the spokes in when crossing
> them in the pattern which I would think is substantially weaker.
> Jobst Brandt calls this interlacing. Why were English wheels not
> interlaced? I have two sets of Spence Wolf tied and soldered wheels
> for vintage Italian bikes and Jobst says that was unnecessary. I am
> going to build up some new wheels for the Humber I'm restoring using
> Bayless Wiley track hubs on some NOS Dunlop Special Lightweight Steel
> rims. I have always interlaced spokes on my wheels. Is there a
> reason I shouldn't on these? Also, did the British tie and solder?
> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> Ted, maybe a couple of thoughts will be helpful:
> 1) WRT interlacing, I suspect that some distinctions don't make a
> significant difference in the real world, for almost all riders in almost
> all situations. I interlace my wheels, because that has been a hallmark of
> quality wheels. But it wouldn't surprise me to learn that some industrial
> engineer with a stopwatch learned that they saved 15 seconds/wheel by
> skipping that, and so the change was made. Didn't get more callbacks, so
> kept it that way.
> 2) As a further example of distinctions that don't make a difference, note
> that the British "standard", 32/40 front/rear, coexisted for many decades
> with the continental 36/36, w/o either establishing enough advantage to
> shift the inertia of the market (even though 36/36 cuts out two stocking
> items (one length each of spokes and rims). Maybe the British would have
> found even greater production economies by shifting to 36/36 before the
> industry disappeared?
> A nice illustration of a real-world consequence: At L'Eroica, one vendor
> had a number of sets of NOS Campy 3-piece 32/40 road hubsets. Only one
> issue: shells only. I infer that they were overstocks that got cannibalized
> to keep some 36/36 wheels on the road.
> harvey sachs
> mcLean va usa.
> Where yesterday the Hamel finally got a few miles, lots of smiles, and some
> admiring questions from folks with 60 year younger bikes.