I've reflected upon this thru the years also.
I think the "feeling'"one gets when riding a bike of this style is one of a
resposive controlled float.
Years ago riders pedaled and spun more with their legs from the hips down
and using supple ankle motion.
To accomplish the ride many of you describe one has to have all the elements
of the frame design and components in place.
The back ends and bottom brackets would sway a little but when combined with
nice pedal motion the rhythm was a smooth and comfortable but positive ride.
The other factor that put it into place was the head and fork relationship
that wasn't too flexy and held the package together.
The fork rakes also came into play here, good absorbtion and not too much
flex in the crown area.
Shifting and chain rub wasn't a problem as the use of first 1/8" chains then
wider OD 3/32" had suffficient space between cogs and F/R derailleur cages
so chain rub didn't seem to be a problem.
That's also why many riders used Mafac levers on many different brakes.
One could change a wheel, be a little off, but because the shoes were far
apart with the long draw the levers provided enuf side play gave a
comfortable margin of error.
Also roads weren't as good so if a wheel got a little out of true there was
good clearance without brakeshoe rim rub.
High flange hubs also stiffened up the ride if one was on better roads to
make a spiffier ride.
There are many variables and one can argue these things until the solder
comes off our spoke ties.
But, I started racing on a fiixed gear in 1947 and grew along with
derailleurs as they came on line in the US during the '50's.
As the metallurgy and equipment improved, so did the tolerances and
precision, so guys like me literally rolled into the modern age on the
learning curve growing our own ability and knowledge as we pedalled along.
Many propellor heads and geeks can test their Brooks buns off and
expostulate about all the exploding of what they call riders myths and old
wives's tales, but when you actually rode bikes on dirt, cobblestone,
asphalt, and cement roads in plus cinder, dirt, masonite, plywood, hardwood,
asphalt, and cement tracks, you will know what you feel and how it handles.
Those of you out there that rode those roads and dived down those bankings
know exactly what I mean.
Thinking back a little like this has been fun.
Think I'll chime in on the track racing scene in the US years ago thread
tomorrow, and the next day I'll catch up on the why 650b topic and see if we
can get some good dialogue going in those areas also.
Ted Ernst
Palos Verdes Estates
CA USA
> Listers,
>
> Like Chris, I have endured many nasty comments about riding and owning
> "inferior" French frames and components over many years. I have owned
> Italian, English, French, and USA-built bikes, and used components from
> the Mystic East as well as France, Great Britain, and Italy. But my
> (cycling) heart belongs firmly in the arms--and forks--
> of the French. (Which is odd, considering that I am genetically about 3/4
> Germanic.)
>
> My favorite rides? My 1985 PX-10 LE (with Simplex LJ derailleurs, Mafac
> 2000 brakes, and Phil Wood hubs) and my 1998-ish Albert Eisentraut (Campi
> Chorus 9-speed with a Racing Triple). Both felt far more "lively" than
> other, equally nice bikes (like my TREK 2000, an all-aluminum and quite
> off-topic bike that was comfortable all day long and stable, but
> overwhelmingly "dull" or "uninspiring" in feel. Perhaps "tone deaf" is
> the musical equivalent?)
>
> I used to get admiring looks for my all-Campi NR Raleigh Professionals
> (one was Mink Blue, one was Silver/Black), which, by comparison, handled
> terribly (IMHO) compared to the PX or my 'Traut. Perhaps it was the Campi
> NR gear, versus the "lowly" (but lighter and lower-geared) Stronglight 93
> cranks and Mafac brakes? I get lots of admiring looks for my Eisentraut,
> too, but it is truly in a class by itself with its incredible downhill
> tracking/stability, not to mention a few other admirable qualities.
>
> I have no idea what makes (or made) the PX and other French bikes ride
> the way they do, but I am sure hoping that my 1975-era Swiss Allegro has
> a pronounced "french" feel to it once it's built. I'd love to fall in
> love again.
>
> Jon Spangler
> Alameda, CA USA
> (where he is happily married but has a potential love affair under
> construction in his garage)
>
>
> On Jan 13, 2009, at 12:40 AM, Chris wrote:
>
>>
>> Message: 11
>> Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 06:30:27 +0000
>> From: CHRIS VAN SCOYK <cvanscoyk51550@q.com>
>> Subject: Re: [CR] 70's French Constructeur Bike - what rises to the
>> top
>> To: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
>> Message-ID: <COL106-W6564CEF6FD6AF28BD80EF187D90@phx.gbl>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>>
>>
>>
>> All this conversation about "lesser esteemed" French bike constucteurs
>> has
>> almost made my head spin. And all this from a group largely biased
>> toward M
>> arques from the UK and Italy. Don't take me wrong. I deeply admire bikes
>> fr
>> om those countries, and own and ride several to be sure, but my heart b
>> elongs to French bikes. I'm not fortunate enough to have a bike from any
>> "c
>> onstructeur" but I will, however, be scanning French Ebay from now on a
>> fter seeing pictures of Peter's fantastic Berthoud.
>> I'm convinced there is some sort of "Gallic feel" to these bikes,
>> includi
>> ng the French mass produced bikes of my youth. I agree with Peter that
>> ther
>> e is a certain "lightness" associated with French bikes. Not measured in
>> Gr
>> ams or Kilos, but something less tangible. I used to think it was just
>> fr
>> ame geometry, but now I'm not so sure. It's something that my friends
>> ha
>> ve confusedly called flimsy, but to each his own I guess. I'll bet I'm
>> no
>> t the only list member that has suffered a few rude comments about the
>> inhe
>> rent inferiority of French bikes and components.
>>
>> Anyway. Thanks for sharing the pictures of the Berthoud and the
>> Phillipe. I
>> really liked the all French components. Both bikes, in their own way,
>> are works of French art. OK, even if they are considered minor works.
>>
>>
>> Chris Van Scoyk
>> Ankeny, IA
>>
>>
>
> Jon Spangler
> Writer/Editor
> Linda Hudson Writing
> 510-864-0370/FAX 864-2144
> MOBILE 510-846-5356
> hudsonspangler@earthlink.net