Your communications give me the impression of someone not very well informed about various topics on which you render opinions. Why give "a discussion about the law" when those "Fixie Nation" members very aim is to defy any law and thereby expose others to injury? You seem unsure about the "tone" of my eMail, and seem equally unsure about the damage your remarks do to the feelings of others, such as Jock Boyer. When I see the negative mention you have given Jock Boyer on your website, while disregarding Anquetil's actions (many great criminals have escaped jail, but are criminals nonetheless), I have less regard for any of your opinions, be they about vintage bicycles or anything else. I have made my suggestion about making your GitaneUSA website more evenhanded privately several times, but, it seems that mere suggestions don't get the attention needed to cause correction. If you are compelled to discuss Boyer, please mention Anquetil as well. I am pleased to know that you will comply with rules when informed by a "proper authority", however, as you are an attorney, I would also hope that you might inform yourself too. However, I suspect that your lack of information may have caused you to disregard Anquetil's crimes. Thanks for your attention. I hope that this note will cause you to amend your website. George George Hollenberg MD CT, USA
On Wed, Oct 14, 2009 at 3:55 PM, sandranian <sandranian@yahoo.com> wrote:
> First, I am not sure about the tone of that email, but I read it as being
> absurdly accusatory and/or negative.
>
> Second, my post was what I believed was only a discussion about the law,
> not a judgment on anything or anybody. Where it did include my opinion, I
> stated as much and don't think that your opinion regarding what you do with
> your own personal property is any more valid than anyone else's. Just
> because you find it offensive to chop up an old Colnago, doesn't mean that
> someone else must too. And just for the record, I stated and believe that
> the bikes shouldn't be "chopped", but then they aren't MY bikes. If I was so
> concerned, I guess I would have to buy all of the bikes to take them off the
> market! The term "Fixie Nation" is something which I have coined, tongue and
> cheek, and I find it funny. Kind of like the "Raider Nation". Conforming in
> non-conformity. Funny, right? Maybe not....
>
> Third, I believe that any vintage lightweight bicycle is proper subject
> matter for the CR list, and if not, then the moderator will state so. You
> are not the owner of this list, nor the moderator...so I will continue to
> post items which I feel comply with the written rules until I hear from the
> proper authority!
>
> Finally, as far as I know, Anquetil was not jailed for anything, nor was he
> ever found guilty of a crime of molestation, which makes his case different
> from Boyer's. But thanks for the suggestion.
>
> Stephan Andranian
> Costa Mesa, California, USA
> http://www.GitaneUSA.com
>
> _____________________________________
>
> This E-mail is covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18
> U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521 and is legally privileged. This information is
> confidential information and is intended only for the use of the individual
> or entity named above. If the reader of this message is not the intended
> recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or
> copying of this communication is strictly prohibited.
>
> --- On *Wed, 10/14/09, George Hollenberg <ghollmd@gmail.com>* wrote:
>
>
> From: George Hollenberg <ghollmd@gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [CR] riding fixed without brakes
> To: "sandranian" <sandranian@yahoo.com>
> Cc: "Charles Andrews" <chasds@mindspring.com>, "Classic Rendezvous" <
> classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
> Date: Wednesday, October 14, 2009, 12:31 PM
>
> Hi Stephan:
> There is no "Fixie Nation" just some idiots that place themselves and
> others in danger by riding bicycles without brakes. These same fools also
> have destroyed some important bicycles in order to pursue their stupid games
> (I know of two such bikes in particular, including a fabulous very early
> Colnago).
> Other than to decry these people and their dangerous and mindless behavior,
> I don't see why there should be more discussion of them on CR.
> Let me take this occasion to ask you whether you have added reference on
> your Gitane website to Anquetil's incestuous rape of his step-daughter? This
> information dwarfs the reference to Boyer's crime. In fact, it's been the
> subject of a book and movie.
>
> On Wed, Oct 14, 2009 at 1:42 PM, sandranian sandranian@yahoo.com<http://mc/compose?to=sandranian@yahoo.com
> > wrote:
>
>> In California, state law only requires that the bike be able to "skid",
>> which is odd, because it does not require that the bike be able to "stop".
>> California Vehicle Code Sec. 21201(a) states that "No person shall
>> operate a bicycle on a roadway unless it is equipped with a brake which
>> will enable the operator to make one braked wheel skid on dry, level,
>> clean pavement."
>>
>> While that appears to clearly require a mechanical brake, fixed gear fans
>> have argued that the statute does not, in fact, require a hand-lever or
>> other "mechanical" brake. The term "a brake", they argue, can be either (1)
>> mechanical or (2) a technique by operation of the rider himself, i.e. a hand
>> or by locking the back wheel.
>>
>> As an attorney, I think this argument is a loser in court, but it may
>> depend on the judge, and I wouldn't be surprised to hear about people
>> beating the ticket based on this argument. Interestingly, it appears by the
>> text of the law that a front brake would not comply and would actually be
>> illegal, as it is almost impossible to make the front wheel skid without
>> crashing. Local ordinances may also require mechanical brakes, but the
>> argument in the Fixie Nation is that they are not needed to comply with the
>> law (at least in California).
>>
>> Stephan Andranian
>> Costa Mesa, California USA
>> http://www.GitaneUSA.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *Equipment Requirements. VC 21201*
>>
>> *a)* No person shall operate a bicycle on a roadway unless it is equipped
>> with a brake which will enable the operator to make one braked wheel skid on
>> dry, level, clean pavement.
>>
>>
>> _____________________________________
>>
>> This E-mail is covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18
>> U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521 and is legally privileged. This information is
>> confidential information and is intended only for the use of the individual
>> or entity named above. If the reader of this message is not the intended
>> recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or
>> copying of this communication is strictly prohibited.
>>
>> --- On *Wed, 10/14/09, George Hollenberg ghollmd@gmail.com<http://mc/compose?to=ghollmd@gmail.com
>> >* wrote:
>>
>>
>> From: George Hollenberg ghollmd@gmail.com<http://mc/compose?to=ghollmd@gmail.com
>> >
>> Subject: Re: [CR] riding fixed without brakes
>> To: "Charles Andrews" chasds@mindspring.com<http://mc/compose?to=chasds@mindspring.com
>> >
>> Cc: "Classic Rendezvous" classicrendezvous@bikelist.org<http://mc/compose?to=classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
>> >
>> Date: Wednesday, October 14, 2009, 8:29 AM
>>
>> The fixed-wheel fad is a counter-culture phenomenon which, like many other
>> dumb crazes, has gotten the interest of some fools who, unable to attract
>> attention to themselves by any other means, ride around city streets
>> without
>> using brakes.
>> Some of these "fixie" riders are so stupid that they feign ignorance for
>> the
>> need of brakes on public streets. I think that fines, arrest and, if
>> needed,
>> jail time will help to correct their misconception.
>> In any event, why the activities of these fools should occupy the
>> band-width
>> of Dale's great CR Forum is beyond me.
>> I hope that this is the last we hear about it.
>> George
>> George Hollenberg MD
>> CT, USA
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Oct 14, 2009 at 10:39 AM, Charles Andrews chasds@mindspring.com<http://mc/compose?to=chasds@mindspring.com
>> >wrote:
>>
>> > Kevin McCaul wrote:
>> >
>> > "As for brakes, well all I can say is if you feel the need for them,
>> then
>> > you
>> > probably shouldn't be riding fixed. I've seen firsthand and heard
>> numerous
>> > stories of guys flying over the handlebars using them.
>> >
>> > Then again I'm sure there is a place for brakes in certain
>> circumstances,
>> > but I can't think of one that applies to me. Let me know! You ride on
>> the
>> > sidewalk only maybe?"
>> >
>> > ************
>> >
>> > I'd be interested to know just how many drivers and pedestrians you've
>> > terrified in all those years because of what you had to do because you
>> had
>> > no brakes. I've seen it many times: fixed riders without brakes doing
>> stuff
>> > that should have got them killed, solely because they have no brakes.
>> And
>> > scaring the bejesus out of everyone around them in the process.
>> >
>> > The real tough-guy riders from 50 years ago always had brakes.
>> > Purpose-made path-racer bikes from the time nearly always had front
>> brakes.
>> > They knew riding without brakes in traffic was simply an irresponsible
>> > affectation. Had I not seen the results with my own eyes many times in
>> > downtown LA, and elsewhere, I would not post about this, but people
>> riding
>> > without brakes give a bad name to all cyclists, regardless of the sort
>> of
>> > bike you might ride.
>> >
>> > I've ridden fixed with brakes many times; I've never even come close to
>> > going over the bars. I wouldn't do it any other way, out in traffic.
>> >
>> > Just as being the only rider with brakes in a group on the track is
>> > irresponsible and dangerous--and would never be allowed--so is riding
>> fixed
>> > without brakes out in traffic. Same concept. If you're not using
>> brakes
>> > out in traffic, you shouldn't be riding fixed.
>> >
>> > Charles Andrews
>> > Los Angeles
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > "everyone has elites; the important thing is
>> > to change them from time to time."
>> >
>> > --Joseph Schumpeter, via Simon Johnson
>> > _______________________________________________
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> George
>>
>> George Hollenberg MD
>> CT, USA
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> George
>
> George Hollenberg MD
> CT, USA
>
>
>
-- George
George Hollenberg MD
CT, USA