I'd like to return to one of Tom Sanders' original thread-starting
questions for a bit:
>>> How do folks find they ride and handle relative to a conventional
>>> bike?
My 53 CM (c-t) Peugeot UO-18 mixte has a 55 CM functional top tube, so it fits me better in the front length dimension than my Eisentraut, as far as I can tell from my still-evolving fit adventures.
The long TT is also a good argument for the European "unisex" theory as to the mixte's general application, IMHO.
The similarly long (at least by modern US standards) TT on most European mixtes seems almost misogynistic: it puts women's soft tissues at risk when they have to lean too far forward to reach the handlebars, especially for average and smaller women with their usually-shorter arms and torsos relative to overall height. It is no wonder that many women disliked these "ladies' models" back in the day but may not have realized why they hurt so much. Special attention should be paid to the TT length when fitting most mixtes and other "women's bikes" to women to ensure a proper (usually shorter) TT and front-center length.
"The exception proves the rule" department: My wife, Linda, rides a made-to-measure and way-off-topic Serotta Legend Ti bike with a 55 CM TT that is almost identical to her on-topic UO-18's, despite her self-described "Tyrannosaurus Rex" upper body build. Her femurs are relatively long, and she need a long TT to achieve a good custom fit.)
As to the ride and handling, I LOVE my Peugeot's "long and limber" feel and handling. The twin laterals definitely make the ride a more "flexy" one, but it is also very, very comfortable and works well with my high-RPM cadence. It is nimble in steering, stable under load, and is fitted with front & rear racks and semi-permanently-affixed on-topc (?) Tailwind panniers. The Phil Wood hubs and BB make for worry-free tear-round riding. It is often loaded with up to 40 pounds of produce from the Farmer's Market or a serious load of household or remodeling supplies (a 35# box of drywall "mudd" from the hardware store on the rear rack) from the hardware store. The "gas pipe" Peugeot 1030 tubing exceeds its humble origins due to a solid design, and feels very much like my PX-10s have felt over the years. (All good, in other words.)
With a 12 CM stem and Rivendell's "Priest" bars, I am upright enough to see well in traffic (and be seen), and can easily dismount at stop signs or at Peet's without worrying about physiology at all.
I would not be surprised if other European makers' mixtes (Gitane, Motobecane, etc.) also perform similarly well, but have never ridden most of them. Nor have I tried a 531 or Columbus double-butted "premium" mixte of any make. (The idea of a Gios-made mixte is new to me and very intriguing, as is its color.)
In short, never underestimate the handling and utilitarian performance characteristics of the humble-looking and inexpensive European mixtes. Just pay attention to the front-length and TT fit if fitting one to anyone with average or shorter-than-average upper body dimensions.
Jon Spangler who has "his and hers" on-topic Peugeot UO-18s in the garage in Alameda, CA USA
On Oct 31, 2009, at 8:40 AM, <classicrendezvous-request@bikelist.org>
wrote:
>
>
> On Wed, Oct 28, 2009 at 8:19 PM, Jerome & Elizabeth Moos <
> jerrymoos@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
>> I think the discussion was that a mixte is usually understood to
>> be a frame
>> on which the toptube is replaced by two smaller lateral tubes that
>> run from
>> the headtube to a point halfway or more down the seatube and
>> attach to the
>> sides of the seattube. Usually these smaller diameter laterals
>> also extent
>> further to the rear DO's and attach there as well.
>>
>> Most Schwinn women's frames were not mixte in that they had a
>> single curved
>> tube about the same diameter as a conventional toptube, that ran
>> from the
>> headtube to about the same point on the seattube where mixte
>> laterals would
>> attach. Thus these Schwinn women's frames serve the same function
>> as a
>> mixte, but have a different construction. Some Italian women's
>> frames had
>> essentially the same construction as the Schwinns, while in
>> France, Holland,
>> Belgium, Britain, and to some extent Japan, one would usually see
>> the mixte
>> construction.
>>
>> As to whether mixte frames were specifically women's frames, the
>> story I
>> have heard is that these were originally made for commuting/basic
>> transportation in climates where both men and women would wear
>> long winter
>> coats and long raincoats, Holland, Belgium and northern France for
>> instance.
>> Thus they were used by both men and women. Having never lived in
>> those
>> countries, I can't say if that is an accurate account or not. But
>> certainly
>> in the US and in the upscale markets in which bikes have been
>> promoted for
>> recreation rather than basic transportation, the mixte has been
>> disproportionately targeted at females. But that doesn't mean
>> that was how
>> they originally began.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Jerry Moos
>> Big Spring, Texas, USA
>>
>> --- On Wed, 10/28/09, George Allen <jgallen@lexairinc.com> wrote:
>>
>>> From: George Allen <jgallen@lexairinc.com>
>>> Subject: Re: [CR] Are Mixtes historically non sex specific?
>>> To: Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
>>> Date: Wednesday, October 28, 2009, 3:48 PM
>>> I never understood the true purpose
>>> of a mixte until my first trip to
>>> Europe. It was in Florence that I watched a very attractive
>>> lady wearing
>>> an impossibly tight skirt walk down the street, unlock a
>>> mixte and ride
>>> off. The skirt never would have survived had she mounted
>>> anything but a
>>> mixte. The image is burned into my brain as if it were
>>> yesterday. And
>>> just to keep it on-topic, the mixte was one of those
>>> ancient, lugged
>>> city bikes ubiquitous to the continent. I can't really
>>> think of another
>>> reason to build a bike that way but I'm interested if there
>>> are. BTW, I
>>> believe there is a certain nomenclature concerning these
>>> bikes. I think
>>> it was Jerry Moos who disabused me of the notion of a
>>> Paramount mixte.
>>> What is it Jerry, a split tube? I have three on-topic
>>> women's bikes: a
>>> 1974 Cinelli, a 1977? Jack Taylor and a 1970's Paramount
>>> and they are
>>> all built differently but I think the Taylor is the only
>>> one that is
>>> definitively a "mixte". I think this Holdsworth is one too
>>> but is built
>>> differently still, what with the reverse seat post clamp
>>> and the webbing
>>> where the twin tubes meet the seat tube. I'll try to post
>>> some pictures
>>> of the bikes in the next few days.
>>>
>>> George Allen
>>> Lexington, Ky
>>> USA
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Tom Sanders wrote:
>>>
>>>> Billy David remarked that "mixtes are unisex not female
>>> specific". I really
>>>> perked up my ears at this. I had not heard this
>>> said before. I have
>>>> wondered for years why more mildly physically
>>> handicapped folks are not
>>>> riding these instead of recumbents.
>>>>
>>>> Is this idea of the non-sex nature of them historically
>>> true or is it just
>>>> Billy's and my own opinion? It sure
>>> could open up new choices for folks
>>>> who have trouble swing a leg up over the seat,
>>> etc. Are any of our American
>>>> One Person Shops that I love so much building a high
>>> quality Mixte? Could
>>>> there be a new market there? I even like the
>>> looks of some I have seen.
>>>> Most seem kind of junky, but I have see a few that were
>>> really great! A
>>>> couple of years ago a really exciting Paramount Mixte
>>> went through E-Bay for
>>>> less than $500.in retrospect, I really wish I had made
>>> a move on it, but my
>>>> ideas on them were just nascent at the time.
>>>>
>>>> I haven't owned one (and then it was my wife's) for 30
>>> years. How do folks
>>>> find they ride and handle relative to a conventional
>>> bike?
>>>>
>>>> Tom Sanders
>>>>
>>>> Lansing, MI USA
>>>>
Jon Spangler Writer/editor Linda Hudson Writing
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