Thanks, Peter, that means my 1975 is an Mk IV, since it has Cinelli crown a nd Brampton stays. It also answers my question as to the identity of the P ros with conventional stays. It still leaves the question of how to tell t he Mk II, III and IV from one another.
BTW, there was some debate as to the significance of the red/black/gold(or yellow if you like) bands on the white Pro Mk I. Interesting to note that the same colors were used in the color scheme of the Team Pro. These could be taken as German colors, but equally easily as Belgian colors, although the German colors include a more clearly gold, the Belgian maybe a bit more like yellow. But the TI-Raleigh team was based in Holland, managed by Dut chman Peter Post and included many Dutch riders. So I'm not sure why eithe r German or Belgian colors would make sense. Maybe a Dutch-based British-s ponsored team should have used red, white and blue, those being the colors of both Netherlands and Britain. But then that could be confused with Fran ce, USA, Luxemburg and God knows what other country. Maybe that's why actu al Dutch sports teams often use orange, while the British used British Raci ng Green. And the teams of Italy, whose flag is red, white and green, wear blue - go figure.
Regards,
Jerry Moos
Big Spring, Texas, USA
> From: kohl57@starpower.net <kohl57@starpower.net>
\r?\n> Subject: Re: [CR] Raleigh Carltons (weights)
\r?\n> To: jerrymoos@sbcglobal.net, classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
\r?\n> Date: Friday, February 27, 2009, 10:10 AM
\r?\n> Original Message:
\r?\n> -----------------
\r?\n> From: Jerome & Elizabeth Moos jerrymoos@sbcglobal.net
\r?\n> Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2009 07:06:24 -0800
\r?\n> To: biankita@comcast.net, Carb7008@cs.com,
\r?\n> classicrendezvous@bikelist.
\r?\n> org
\r?\n> Subject: Re: [CR] Raleigh Carltons (weights)
\r?\n>
\r?\n> "BTW, how does one tell the difference between an Mk
\r?\n> IV and and Mk V? O
\r?\n> r
\r?\n> an Mk III and an Mk IV for that matter? "
\r?\n>
\r?\n> The Mark V (1977-81ish) was completely redesigned from the
\r?\n> Mark IV with a
\r?\n> conventional seat stay (none fastback), shorter wheelbase,
\r?\n> Vagner fork
\r?\n> crown (instead of the Cinelli sloping one) and designed, it
\r?\n> was said, alon
\r?\n> g
\r?\n> the general geometry of the Ilkeston-built Ti Raleigh Team
\r?\n> bikes. Depend
\r?\n> ing
\r?\n> on one's preferences, this was probably the best riding
\r?\n> and handling of al
\r?\n> l
\r?\n> the Marks. The Competition GS, with similar angles,
\r?\n> introduced the same
\r?\n> year was also a superb riding and handling machine.
\r?\n>
\r?\n> Here is the catalogue ("1978") showing the Mark
\r?\n> V:
\r?\n>
\r?\n> http://bulgier.net/
\r?\n>
\r?\n> Peter Kohler
\r?\n> Washington DC USA
\r?\n>
\r?\n>
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