> From: classicrendezvous-request@bikelist.org
> Subject: Classicrendezvous Digest, Vol 75, Issue 8
> To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
> Date: Tue, 3 Mar 2009 16:24:44 -0800
>
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>
> CR
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: Need some help dating a Viking Vison (kevin sayles)
> 2. NAHBS (Jim Lingenfelter AIA)
> 3. Viking Vision (Norris Lockley)
> 4. Lostwax Lugs (Kirke Campbell)
> 5. For Sale Hans Ohrt Bertin with Milremo bits (robert st.cyr)
> 6. Re: Lostwax Lugs (brianbaylis@juno.com)
> 7. WTB: Black Bluemel Fender Stay Caps (devotion finesse)
> 8. Nuovo/Super Record Rear Derailleur (Paul Walker)
> 9. Re: Lostwax Lugs (Dale Brown)
> 10. NAHBS Aftermath (Tom Martin)
> 11. David Tesch built John Howard with all Campagnolo parts 57cm
> on SF Craigslist March 09 (Charles Nighbor)
> 12. GEMINI Frames and Henri Depierre (Norris Lockley)
> 13. Lost wax lugs (Norris Lockley)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Tue, 3 Mar 2009 20:55:40 +0000
> From: kevin sayles <kevinsayles@tiscali.co.uk>
> Subject: Re: [CR] Need some help dating a Viking Vison
> To: classic Rendezvous <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
> Message-ID: <476A4CBFB04142C783D4A39B93CE8808@kevinPC>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> reply-type=original
>
> Hi Richard, welcome to the list, and a fellow Yorkshireman too! [desp
ite
> living in Somerset I'm a Yorkshire man]
>
> looking at your bike i think your near the mark with late 70s, maybe ea
rly
> 80s?
> Viking made an attempt to reinvent themselves after the success of the
> 'Viking Campagnolo' race team of the late 70s,,,,I believe a fact
ory was set
> up in Northern Ireland?
> The team frames where made by Woodrup's.
>
> cheers
> Kevin Sayles
> Bridgwater. Somerset UK
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Richard Roberts" <rarober1@yahoo.co.uk>
> To: <Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 5:41 PM
> Subject: [CR] Need some help dating a Viking Vison
>
>
> > Hi,
> >
> >
> >
> > First post so hope I am ticking all the boxes.
> >
> > I have recently taken ownership of a Viking Vision lightweight which I
> > intend to restore. From the Shimano 600 group set and Reynolds Tubing
> > Stickers I date it to approx late 70's.
> >
> > I have posted some pictures here:
> > http://picasaweb.google.com/
> > just wondered if anybody could shed some light on the exact year or
> > manufacture for me.
> >
> >
> >
> > Regards
> >
> > Richard Roberts
> >
> > Boroughbridge, UK
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> >
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Tue, 3 Mar 2009 17:26:39 -0500
> From: Jim Lingenfelter AIA <jimlingenfelter@five2fivedesign.com>
> Subject: [CR] NAHBS
> To: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
> Cc: 'Ron Gurth' <rononice@yahoo.com>, 'Dale Brown' <oroboyz@aol.com>
> Message-ID: <014701c99c4f$233539d0$699fad70$@com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Boy, did I enjoy the weekend, meeting quite a few of those who attend
ed and
> what lovely bikes. Della Santa's bikes were uber KOF. And was that a form
er
> student of Tom Hayes' who built the beautiful tribute to Jack Taylor? Ron
> Gurth was magnificent as the tactician providing the volunteers who made
the
> weekend go well for all those who attended. A very special thanks is owed
to
> both he and Sallie for their unselfish contribution over the weekend. I
> didn't get a sign in sheet set up at the dinner but I think we had around
35
> diners. Marie Autry and guest, Gabriel and Rita Romeu, Ron Edmonson
, Dale
> Brown, Steve Maus, Larry Black, Sean Price, Doug & Cheri Wagner
, Jerry
> Jeter, Steve Neago, Tom Sanders, Tom Hayes, Chuck & Nina Lathe,
Tim & Jeff
> Potter, Aldo Ross, and a few I didn't get to meet. Dale was most fun
> celebrating his 29th birthday for the x time. Fun little trivia questions
to
> keep everyone on their toes. All in all a very fun evening. And like
> Woodstock, as the legend of the evening grows, I am sure the entire l
ist
> will have been there that evening. And I think that guy sitting in with t
he
> band was from San Diego. He had a sly look about him.
>
> Jim Lingenfelter,
> Indianapolis, IN
> Where it was 14d f this morning.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Tue, 3 Mar 2009 14:28:32 -0800
> From: Norris Lockley <norris.lockley@yahoo.com>
> Subject: [CR] Viking Vision
> To: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
> Message-ID: <103661.33431.qm@web44916.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Robert, Kevin isn't far off the mark about your Viking Vision..
>
> The brand was revived in 1976/77, with the first bikes becoming availab
le f
> rom the Llondonderry (N.Ireland) factory, in 1978, just about the tim
e of t
> he revival in the public's interest in cycling. I had just opened a new r
et
> ail cycle shop at the time and VIKING became my leading brand.
>
> The set-up at Viking was interesting and based around a family of cyclist
s,
> including Harry Quinn and certain? relatives among whom were some well-k
> nown Liverpool roadmen. Harry designed all the frames including the racer
s
> for the young lads,,they looked very good and used Prugnat lugs, up
right an
> d correct angles. The factory was based in N.Ireland because there was at
t
> hat time a Government initiative that provided loans to companies willing
t
> o create work in that country. Remember there were the TROUBLES between t
he
> Catholics, the Protestants and the various atrocities..
>
> The Vision model was listed in the first catalogue in May 1978..but it wa
s
> painted in viola metallic. Later that year it became available in ice blu
e.
> ...the colour used for all the best frames including the Severn Valley. O
the
> r colours included copper beech and ice lemon metallics. Your colour, a
yea
> r later, is Burnt Orange. All the paints were from a top Italian paint
manu
> facturer.
>
> The Vision was the entry point for Reynolds tubed frames - the Vision hav
in
> g three main tubes in 531, and angles of 72 degrees parallel. It came e
quip
> ped as standard with the Shimano 600 /Mafac brakes set-up.
> The next model, the European, finished in Ice Blue, looked identica
l to the
> Vision but had Reynolds 531 throughout and Campagnolo ends.
>
> Price for the bike was 164.95 pounds sterling...quite a high price at the
t
> ime with the frame alone costing about 55 pounds.
>
> To publicise the launch of the revived Viking brand, the company ran a
Pro
> team - one of the best at the time, including Keith Lambert, Sid Barr
as, Ph
> il Carbutt, Dave Cumming...with the renowned Eddie Soens - another Live
rpud
> lian - as manager.
>
> The venture was fairly short-lived, there being some fall-out within th
e fa
> mily..but the final problem arose in the early 80s when the Government fu
nd
> ing was halted. It was a great pity because the Viking range provided exc
el
> lently designed and well balanced bikes that looked like the real thing..
an
> d probably rode just as well as some of the 1950/60s French machines.
>
> Norris Lockley
>
> Settle UK
> =0A=0A=0A
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Tue, 3 Mar 2009 14:30:14 -0800
> From: Kirke Campbell <passionateyouththing@yahoo.com>
> Subject: [CR] Lostwax Lugs
> To: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
> Message-ID: <633103.18684.qm@web53305.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Hello List!
> Maybe some of the framebuilders out there can answer my question...
> I have been browsing through old Panasonic catalogs at http://panabike.s-
cars.org/ recently (I am quite smitten with some of the top-of-the-line mod
els!) and notice the use of the term "lostwax lugs."
> Does this refer to a process of lug making? Can anyone explain it to me?
> Thanks!
>
> Kirke Campbell
> Houston, Texas USA
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Tue, 3 Mar 2009 14:43:50 -0800
> From: robert st.cyr <rpstcyr@hotmail.com>
> Subject: [CR] For Sale Hans Ohrt Bertin with Milremo bits
> To: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
> Message-ID: <BAY109-W132A4CD548F5FF5A6BF535A2A60@phx.gbl>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252"
>
>
> List,
> I have a 1970-71 Bertin for sale. The frame is too tall for me or else I
wo
> uld keep and restore.
> The bike is complete, unrestored, and appears to be original.
> Size:64 cm center-center
> Color:silver with blue box lining-most of original decals are complete
> Tubing: Durifort butted frame and fork; Campy dropouts f&r; half chro
me
> fork & stays
> Saddle: Ideale 90
> Crank:cottered Strong light 3-pin with Milremo chainrings
> Stem and bar; Milremo alloy-spear point w/red high lights
> Wheels: 27x1 1/4 alloy red label Super champion with large flange Milremo
h
> ubs and Atom flat q/r's
> Brakes: Mafac Racer w/ mafac levers and black half hoods
> Der/shifters: Simplex Delrin
> Interesting note: Was sold new at the Hans Ohrt bicycle shop in Beverly H
il
> ls-Anyone in So-Cal want to share some stories?
> The bike is in fair condition, complete, but needing a full resto
> If desired I can get some photos up on Wednesday
> $250.00 plus the actual cost of shipping
> No charge for boxing up
>
> Robert St.Cyr
>
> Sacramento, California USA
>
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Windows Live? Contacts: Organize your contact list.
> http://windowslive.com/
> cns!503D1D86EBB2B53C!2285.entry?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_UGC_Contacts_032009
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Tue, 3 Mar 2009 22:58:26 +0000
> From: "brianbaylis@juno.com" <brianbaylis@juno.com>
> Subject: Re: [CR] Lostwax Lugs
> To: <passionateyouththing@yahoo.com>
> Cc: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
> Message-ID: <20090303.145826.17180.0@webmail14.vgs.untd.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"
>
> Kirke,
>
> Yes, I can explain it to you.
>
> Brian Baylis
> La Mesa, CA
> USA
>
>
>
> -- Kirke Campbell <passionateyouththing@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Hello List!
> Maybe some of the framebuilders out there can answer my question...
> I have been browsing through old Panasonic catalogs at http://panabike.s
> -cars.org/ recently (I am quite smitten with some of the top-of-the-line
> models!) and notice the use of the term "lostwax lugs."
>
> Does this refer to a process of lug making? Can anyone explain it to me?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Kirke Campbell
> Houston, Texas USA
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> Click here to save cash and find low rates on auto loans.
> http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/
> 66wWLEPFARfeNxGssh63wWG60qGKkCk/
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Tue, 3 Mar 2009 18:39:55 -0500
> From: devotion finesse <devotion_finesse@hotmail.com>
> Subject: [CR] WTB: Black Bluemel Fender Stay Caps
> To: CR discussion list <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
> Message-ID: <COL113-W7957D5232847129C666CA4F5A60@phx.gbl>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
>
> Muchachos y Muchachas:I am on the lookout for 8 small caps for the ends o
f
> the fender stays on my Bluemel fenders.Please contact me off-list if you
ha
> ve something available.
> Matthew BowneBrooklyn, New York
> _________________________________________________________________
> Hotmail? is up to 70% faster. Now good news travels really fast.
> http://windowslive.com/
> 9
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Tue, 3 Mar 2009 18:59:36 -0500
> From: Paul Walker <starsinmypockets@gmail.com>
> Subject: [CR] Nuovo/Super Record Rear Derailleur
> To: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
> Message-ID:
> <4e4aec1c0903031559o16878255j809262df29d75509@mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"
>
> Hey, my name's Paul Walker. As way of introduction, I own Firehouse B
ikes in
> Philadelphia. We sell used bikes, including a lot of classic lightweigh
ts.
> Right now we've got a 60s Paramount tandem, a Jim Redcay, a 1980 Rale
igh
> Professional we're listing on Ebay, a 70s Arctic, and lots of other f
un
> stuff.
> I'm writing because I have a derailleur that looks like a super record re
ar
> derailleur from the 70s, with the stippled aluminum face plate (instead
of
> the flat one I associate with 80s super record derailleurs). The plate sa
ys
> "Nuovo Record". The other parts of the derailleur have the black super
> record finish. What gives?
>
> Paul Walker
> Philadelphia, PA
> USA
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Tue, 3 Mar 2009 19:01:31 -0500
> From: Dale Brown <oroboyz@aol.com>
> Subject: Re: [CR] Lostwax Lugs
> To: <passionateyouththing@yahoo.com>, <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
> Message-ID: <8CB6A7382831C2F-A34-11D7@webmail-da01.sysops.aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
>
> <<...notice the use of the term "lostwax lugs."
> Does this refer to a process of lug making? >>
>
> Yes, those are the same as investment cast lugs... There is a lot writt
en about them. Google Henry James lugs, he explains it pretty well. They
started appearing in the mid to late19 70s and now are about all anyone use
s, with a very few notable exceptions. Big topic; read up on it and com
e back with more specific questions if you have them.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Dale Brown
> Greensboro, North Carolina USA
> http://www.classicrendezvous.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Kirke Campbell <passionateyouththing@yahoo.com>
> To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
> Sent: Tue, 3 Mar 2009 5:30 pm
> Subject: [CR] Lostwax Lugs
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Hello List!
> Maybe some of the framebuilders out there can answer my question...
> I have been browsing through old Panasonic catalogs at http://panabike.s-
cars.org/
> recently (I am quite smitten with some of the top-of-the-line models!) an
d
> notice the use of the term "lostwax lugs."
> Does this refer to a process of lug making? Can anyone explain it to me?
> Thanks!
>
> Kirke Campbell
> Houston, Texas USA
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 10
> Date: Tue, 3 Mar 2009 19:12:02 -0500
> From: Tom Martin <tom@voimports.com>
> Subject: [CR] NAHBS Aftermath
> To: Classic Rendezvous <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>,
> <framebuilders@phred.org>, <internet-bob@bikelist.org>
> Message-ID:
> <b40b2a3a0903031612s34eb85c5y643c116f3e0e8d98@mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"
>
> We came back to the office with a van full of stuff to unload, a wareho
use
> full of Velo Orange wheels and an overwhelmed shipping table full of orde
rs
> to ship.
>
> I guess you can say NAHBS was a success for VO Imports!
>
> Despite Chris' (and plenty of others from the bike industry) skepticism
, the
> Indianapolis location exceeded all our expectations in attendance,
> enthusiasm, and that certain local flavor of the underground buzz. Well
done
> Don! There were plenty of others planning stuff too: Laura at
> ArtBike!<http://www.handmadebicycleshow.com/artbike.htm>;
> the Momentum Mag party at The big Car
> Gallery<http://www.momentumplanet.com/blog/davidniddrie/artbike-photoboot
h-nahbs>;
> Joe's Bike Shop http://www.yelp.com/
> a home base for many wayward bike shop dwellers; the Classic Rendezvous
> Dinner on Saturday Night; and most of all, the attendees from around
the
> world that made it all worth while.
>
> I was overwhelmed with all the lugwork, amazing paint, and the commun
ity
> involvement. I think this was the first time a bike show of this caliber
> reached out to the local artist scene, the underground bike culture,
and the
> activist community to tie them all together. Interbike- and EuroBike or t
he
> Taipei Cycle Show for that matter- should be taking notes.
>
> What I like most about NAHBS are the shop owners I meet. They are the one
s
> that get it. None are SpecialiGianTrek Retail Experiences. They are the h
ole
> in the wall shops with wood floors in a beat down building on the wrong s
ide
> of town, with cold pizza sitting on top of the crust-o-lator they are a
fraid
> to open because no-one knows when the last time it was cleaned. These sto
res
> are where The Kids go for their fixxies and the grumpy old guys get their
> Raleigh International repaired with appropriate parts by someone
> knowledgeable. It's also where VO Imports finds an audience for Velo Oran
ge
> parts and accessories. They understand the Porteur bike, the multi day
> Randonee, the Construtor level bicycle-as-art.
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 11
> Date: Tue, 3 Mar 2009 16:12:42 -0800
> From: Charles Nighbor <cnighbor1@comcast.net>
> Subject: [CR] David Tesch built John Howard with all Campagnolo parts
> 57cm on SF Craigslist March 09
> To: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
> Message-ID: <AE3A9EFE300A4E1C84CBAB91DA96C1AD@gatewayan2blld>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> ''Very Rare Vintage John Howard with all Campagnolo parts - $575 (Sac.)
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> -------
> Reply to: sale-1057655513@craigslist.org [Errors when replying to ads?]
> Date: 2009-03-02, 4:50PM PST
>
>
>
> Very rare road bike in very good condition. LOW miles. 57cm. SACRIFICE
> $575 ''
> Not seller
> Charles Nighbor
> Walnut Creek, CA
> USA
> PS I can help ship
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 12
> Date: Tue, 3 Mar 2009 16:14:10 -0800
> From: Norris Lockley <norris.lockley@yahoo.com>
> Subject: [CR] GEMINI Frames and Henri Depierre
> To: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
> Message-ID: <67721.10129.qm@web44903.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Thanks are due from me to CR LIst member, Christian Godart, for bring
ing his Ebay auction of a GEMINI frame to my attention.
>
> GEMINI frames are rare, and I had never found one for my collection..un
til now that is. Thanks to a little judicious bidding I managed to win the
auction and hope to pick up the frame when I go over to France very soon.
>
> I have set up a little section about GEMINI frames on my Flickr site if a
nyone wants to know a bit more about Henri Depierre' approach to building h
is GEMINI frames. There's quite a bit about his design philosophy and build
ing methods.
>
> Also I have added some photos of a rare Bespoke time-trial frame that I h
ave bought back from a friend, and wcich might appeal to some of the CR L
ist members..track ends, lugless.When I had uploaded the photos I then tu
rned onto the List to find out about the bikes at the NAHBS show..My! my! t
here is some stunning stuff there..some excellent craftsmanship..perhaps so
me misguided individuals too.
>
> BUT if like Henri Depierre and me..and Richard Sachs, I think..you beli
eve that form follows function and that all the rest is just so much Ars Gr
atia Artis, as Metro-Goldwin-Mayer used to say..then you might find somet
hing to spark your interest at http://www.flickr.com/
>
> Oh..chance I forget..Depierre has things of interest to say about trail a
ngles and cornering..
>
> Norris Lockley, from a very very wet and cold Settle UK
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 13
> Date: Tue, 3 Mar 2009 16:24:43 -0800
> From: Norris Lockley <norris.lockley@yahoo.com>
> Subject: [CR] Lost wax lugs
> To: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
> Message-ID: <316327.42536.qm@web44910.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> As Dale has pointed out there's plenty of information on Google about thi
s process, that is also known as as investment casting in certain circums
tances.
>
> Wikipedia has a good explanation with some diagrams.
>
> Investment cast lugs are still readily available even though, by and la
rge, lugged steel frames are no longer popular with the larger frame manu
facturers. There are some signs of a come-back though as the market rebound
s after the excesses of carbon.
>
> Lost wax lugs are great BUT..they are not malleable and cannot, without
too much effort and skill, be adjusted from the angle at which they are
cast..therefore they can restrict the frame-builder's freedom of action and
design. But they're OK if all your frames are like peas out of a pod.
>
> Norris Lockley...feeling argumentative tonight..blaming it on the incessa
nt rain..Settle UK
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
> End of Classicrendezvous Digest, Vol 75, Issue 8
> ************************************************
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