Thanks, Mark. I actually don't find the contrast between the two bikes that striking, except that the eBay one has Torpado-marked and undrilled DO's. But maybe the seller is engaging in a bit of marketing, as he shows detail of the seatstay caps and DO's, which IMHO are quite nicely done, but neglects to show good shots of the lugs, which you indicate would be much plainer than on the top model.
I was trying to remember the name of the Montreal shop which featured Torpado, but your photos have answered that question, as the Superlight carries a sticker from Baggio.
BTW, do you know when Torpado switched from the diamond cutouts in the lugs to the "T"? I believe the high end Italvegas often had the diamond cutouts.
I guess I am fortunate in not having seen any shoddy Torpados "in the flesh". The refinished Superlight I got from Dale is quite nice, but my wife's mid-priced Italia is quite nice as well, at least now I've replaced some of the mid-range components.
It's well known I'm not nearly as obsessed with Italian bikes as many on the list, but one thing I do have to give the Italians credit for is in sometimes applying a surprising level of detailing and finish to mid-priced frames using lesser tubing. Even if they had their bad patches like most others, Torpado certainly did make some surprisingly nice mid-priced frames over the years, as well a top models as good as any manufacturer of comparable volume.
Regards,
Jerry Moos
Big Spring, Texas, USA
> From: FujiFish1@aol.com <FujiFish1@aol.com>
\r?\n> Subject: Re: [CR] Torpado 4sale
\r?\n> To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
\r?\n> Date: Thursday, March 26, 2009, 11:32 PM
\r?\n> Torpado in it's original form began in 1908, by F.
\r?\n> Torresini and ran 100%
\r?\n> family owned until the early 1980s when Agrati-Garelli
\r?\n> bought 49%, in order to
\r?\n> cease the moto competition. A-G later bought out the
\r?\n> Torresini family
\r?\n> completely, and shortly thereafter closed down bicycle
\r?\n> production, I think in
\r?\n> 1987.
\r?\n>
\r?\n> The model bike on auction appears to be the "Modello
\r?\n> Serie Elegant", sold in
\r?\n> Europe, very uncommon or even unheard of in the US, and
\r?\n> which as Hugh noted,
\r?\n> is a mid-level bike. I've collected many pics of
\r?\n> these bikes, mostly in
\r?\n> Germany, and the unusual contour of the rear dropouts is
\r?\n> consistent. However
\r?\n> this is the first time I recall seeing one with Torpado
\r?\n> stamped dropouts ... in
\r?\n> an older logo font no less, so that's kind of cool.
\r?\n> Jerry Moos' enthusiasm
\r?\n> (in a post more recent than what is quoted below) is
\r?\n> appreciated, but top
\r?\n> level racing frames had Campagnolo dropouts like any other
\r?\n> marque, and although
\r?\n> the workmanship looks OK from what we can see, I don't
\r?\n> think this is top
\r?\n> level. The Ofmega components instead of Campy is another
\r?\n> bit of proof, as that
\r?\n> was common practice for next level bikes to be so
\r?\n> equipped. There will be no
\r?\n> "T" windows in the lugs. The extended looking
\r?\n> seat stay tops were a feature
\r?\n> of the Italvega and Torpado top level Superlight models,
\r?\n> but were seen only
\r?\n> on mid level bikes after TORPADO embossed caps came into
\r?\n> their own.
\r?\n>
\r?\n> There were indeed a lot of shoddy looking low-mid level
\r?\n> bikes coming out of
\r?\n> Torpado in the early-mid 70s, but price point bikes such
\r?\n> as that came out of
\r?\n> a lot of other houses too, like Atala, Bianchi,
\r?\n> Carnielli's Bottecchia,
\r?\n> Legnano, Olmo, etc. Torpado racing bikes from that time
\r?\n> period exist, but they
\r?\n> are fewer and far in between. They look the equivalent of
\r?\n> other top level
\r?\n> factory made bikes of the time.
\r?\n>
\r?\n> Torpado was the contract builder of Italvega bikes sold in
\r?\n> the United
\r?\n> States, the project running from the VERY early 1970s, to
\r?\n> about 1977, or perhaps
\r?\n> late 1976. This line sported many different models, and
\r?\n> sold very well in
\r?\n> southern California. Between this and sales in Canada,
\r?\n> Torpado did not miss out
\r?\n> on the bike boom, IMO. The top of the line Superlight and
\r?\n> clone Super
\r?\n> Speciale frames from that time period are very nice to look
\r?\n> at, and to ride, with
\r?\n> lots of enthusiasts to be found within our CR ranks.
\r?\n> Champion racing frames
\r?\n> and the Torpado branded Superlights of the 70s have mostly
\r?\n> the same features,
\r?\n> but they are much less common. Differences are readily
\r?\n> apparent between the
\r?\n> Ebay bike and a confirmed and unrestored 1976 Torpado
\r?\n> Superlight (owned by a
\r?\n> nice gentleman who I believe is a newer listmember) as
\r?\n> viewed here:
\r?\n>
\r?\n> http://www.wooljersey.com/
\r?\n> There are two pages of relevant pics, so don't miss
\r?\n> them.
\r?\n>
\r?\n> Torpado had a strong presence in the pro peloton from the
\r?\n> early 1950s to
\r?\n> early 1960s, with a down period through the 60s and into
\r?\n> the 70s until hooking
\r?\n> up with Magniflex for the 1976-78 seasons. In all of
\r?\n> these on-years, Torpado
\r?\n> was ridden in the Giro d'Italia as well as many other
\r?\n> classics, meeting with
\r?\n> some bits of success. A mountain stage win here, a TT win
\r?\n> there, and a few
\r?\n> overall victories too. Nothing like Bianchi or Colnago
\r?\n> racing success, but
\r?\n> still worthwhile.
\r?\n>
\r?\n> There is evidence of a Torpado MTB racing team in about
\r?\n> 1986, but not much
\r?\n> is known, and it is essentially off topic anyway.
\r?\n>
\r?\n> All of the above I cited from memory, and is subject to
\r?\n> minor adjustment.
\r?\n> Some day, some day, some day ... I will get all my
\r?\n> collected Torpado data and
\r?\n> images posted online, as I've been promising for years
\r?\n> now. If someone
\r?\n> strong in website building and who has the time to make it
\r?\n> happen is willing to
\r?\n> build the web pages, I'd be willing to finish
\r?\n> processing everything I have
\r?\n> here, in stages for them to work with and get up for
\r?\n> display. If it has to wait
\r?\n> for me to find the time to figure it all out AND get it
\r?\n> all posted ... I'm
\r?\n> afraid too many of us will have turned to dust already!
\r?\n>
\r?\n>
\r?\n> BTW, yes ... the Torpado name has been revived as part of
\r?\n> the Fondreist
\r?\n> group, and one can now find any number of different styles
\r?\n> and models of Torpado
\r?\n> available for sale in Europe. No idea of the quality, but
\r?\n> these are in no
\r?\n> way, shape or form, keepers of the flame that we eye here.
\r?\n>
\r?\n>
\r?\n> Ciao,
\r?\n> Mark "Anything Torpado" Agree
\r?\n> Southfield MI USA
\r?\n> ~ ~ ~
\r?\n>
\r?\n>
\r?\n>
\r?\n>
\r?\n> Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 19:27:44 +0000
\r?\n> From: Hugh Thornton <hughwthornton@yahoo.co.uk>
\r?\n> Subject: Re: [CR] Torpado 4sale
\r?\n> To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
\r?\n>
\r?\n> This looks like a distinctly mid-range bike from the 1970s
\r?\n> with nothing muc
\r?\n> h to commend it.
\r?\n> Does anybody know what happened toTorpado?? They made
\r?\n> great bikes before
\r?\n> WWII and probably through the 1950s.? By the 1970s their
\r?\n> product looked q
\r?\n> uite mediocre, or at least the examples I have seen.? Did
\r?\n> they just fade
\r?\n> away or were they absorbed by another manufacturer?
\r?\n> ?
\r?\n> Hugh Thornton
\r?\n> Cheshire, England
\r?\n>
\r?\n> --- On Thu, 26/3/09, crumpy6204@aol.com
\r?\n> <crumpy6204@aol.com> wrote:
\r?\n>
\r?\n>
\r?\n> From: crumpy6204@aol.com <crumpy6204@aol.com>
\r?\n> Subject: [CR] Torpado 4sale
\r?\n> To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
\r?\n> Date: Thursday, 26 March, 2009, 4:14 PM
\r?\n>
\r?\n>
\r?\n> Check out Ebay#?350181727414 For sale by Alex a GOOD Brit
\r?\n> dealer, Not into
\r?\n> Italian bikes buts looks like a?Very Interesting
\r?\n> background. Cheers ,John C
\r?\n> rump, OldintoBritbikesBrit, Parker Co USA
\r?\n>
\r?\n> **************Free Credit Report and Score Tracking! Get it
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