It may be that at one time most track bikes did not have toeclip overlap, but by the 70's and most certainly by the 80's, toeclip overlap was the rule rather than the exception on track bikes. Some builders were more conservative than others though. As I've related before, the late Ray Gasorowski resisted building my custom Romic track frame in the early to mid 80's with a geometry that resulted in toeclip overlap. I had to argue that not only did most track bikes at the time have overlap, but a couple of my road bike had it as well, and had not caused me any problems. I don't know exactly when track frames became shorter, but I'm guessing it happened gradually during the 70's. That said, I'm sure there are examples of new track frame today without overlap and probably examples with overlap in the 50's.
BTW it's not unusual to have toeclip overlap on touring bikes, especially older ones with 27" wheels, as a wide 27" tire and mudguards will reduce clearance significantly. I suppose that is yet another advantage of 650B tires.
BTW what is the term for this now? Since most modern bike have clipless pedals, I suppose they can't exactly have "toeclip overlap". Is it now just "toe overlap".
Regards,
Jerry Moos
Big Spring, Texas, USA
> From: Stronglight49@aol.com <Stronglight49@aol.com>
\r?\n> Subject: Re: [CR] Track bike set up
\r?\n> To: maincom@optusnet.com.au, classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
\r?\n> Date: Monday, March 9, 2009, 5:27 AM
\r?\n> My Track bike experience is limited to 2 bikes: a
\r?\n> mid-1960s Frejus track bike which I rode extensively
\r?\n> for 3 years on the streets, hills, and country roads
\r?\n> of Connecticut in the northeastern US during the late
\r?\n> 1960s. Later, my 1965 Helyett Speciale, purchased
\r?\n> used from a friend around 1970 and again ridden
\r?\n> primarily on the roads.
\r?\n>
\r?\n> I never had toe clip overlap problems while riding either
\r?\n> of these bikes on the roads. In retrospect, this surprises
\r?\n>
\r?\n> me. It could be that I was simply lucky with the specific
\r?\n>
\r?\n> geometries of these bikes. The seat tube length of
\r?\n> each bike was around 55-56 cm (c-c) and also with
\r?\n> rather high BBs which indeed helped clear the pedals
\r?\n> around turns (my main concern at that time). As Ken
\r?\n> Sanford had suggested, perhaps my somewhat larger
\r?\n> sized frames were simply fortunate coincidences.
\r?\n>
\r?\n> Or, perhaps these bikes were designed originally with
\r?\n> the potential of Road riding (i.e.: training) in mind.
\r?\n> Nevertheless, both of mine were indeed serious Track
\r?\n> machines with no notable Road concessions (such
\r?\n> as brake bolt bores) and each had twin plate fork
\r?\n> crowns, rounded fork blades and rear track forks.
\r?\n>
\r?\n> Could it be that "later" that Track bikes were
\r?\n> more
\r?\n> commonly built with shorter wheel bases? Would
\r?\n> this have been concurrent with reduced lengths and
\r?\n> their lowered wheel clearances of later Road racing
\r?\n> bike frames? I honestly don't know.
\r?\n>
\r?\n> In spite of my general ignorance of Track Iron, I do
\r?\n> know there were surely some event-specific designs
\r?\n> which would been poor choices for the road or for
\r?\n> anything requiring brisk turns of a front wheel... a
\r?\n> motor-paced frame design comes quickly to mind,
\r?\n> and perhaps there were other thoroughbred track
\r?\n> designs as well which also favored extremely short
\r?\n> wheel base designs. While we tend to bunch together
\r?\n> all Track machines as a single frame style, I'm sure
\r?\n> there were many subtle variations... just as there were
\r?\n> for road bikes.
\r?\n>
\r?\n> Seems like the weather in Australia would have
\r?\n> favored roadworthy fixed gear bike designs on
\r?\n> domestically built bikes. Perhaps someone else
\r?\n> Down Under could comment on this, too.
\r?\n>
\r?\n> Very interesting subject!
\r?\n>
\r?\n> BOB HANSON, ALBUQUERQUE, NEW MEXICO, USA
\r?\n>
\r?\n>
\r?\n>
\r?\n>
\r?\n>
\r?\n> **************Need a job? Find employment help in your
\r?\n> area.
\r?\n> (http://yellowpages.aol.com/search?query=employment_agencies&ncid=emlcntusyelp00000005)