Kevin, Jan, etc...
The generalizations you have made here are fair and valid and....... generalizations.
At the other end of the spectrum of thought is the drive/motivation inspired by the dream of building one's own bike for whatever reason. Anything is possible if one's desire is great enough and one is willing to make some sacrifices to achieve the goal. I've only built one bike and I don't ride it that much even though it rides great. For me it was important to do this and I'm glad I could. It was a tremendous luxury for me to be able to do this as a hobbyist. I'd like to build some more - but may or may not be able to in the future - time will tell.
As stated by some others - there is a lot to learn and many skills to aquire to make a go at this. What looks simple is not. Don't think of building a frame as a way to save money or time - it takes lots of both. But if your passion takes you there and your skills and mind are up to it - it can be a thrill as it was for me. It will truly give you an insiders perspective on what framebuilding is about and a taste for how much there is to learn. Enjoy the ride (and be cautious)!!!!! It's definitely more risky than building a coffee table (and I do that too).
Roman Stankus
Atlanta, Ga. 30307
> -----Original Message-----
> From: classicrendezvous-bounces@bikelist.org
> [mailto:classicrendezvous-bounces@bikelist.org] On Behalf Of
> kevin sayles
> Sent: Monday, April 13, 2009 8:03 AM
> To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org; Jan Heine
> Subject: Re: [CR] Geometry
>
> Jan, not wishing to upset anyone, but I have to agree with
> you on this topic [having a go at framebuilding]
>
> As a framebuilder since 71 [I think you may know my history?]
> it always amazes me how cyclists think they could make
> themselves a frame.......one that would be actually safe to ride!
> Like you say it takes years of experience to be able to
> master the torch, but as you know there is a lot more to
> framebuilding than brazing!
>
> I suspect that some of these frame we see from time to time
> that have been made by someone with virtually no experience
> are very dubvious.......they may look nicely finished, some
> are indeed very nicely filed up........but its what went on
> to get it to that stage. [and how long it took them!] Quizing
> such a person who had made his [and alarmingly a friends]
> frame it soon became clear he hadn't 'fed' the braze throught
> the lugs!!! .......I darn't ask about how he brazed the dropouts!
>
> I always say that If someone wants to have a go at making a
> coffee table, fine, at worst if a leg falls off you will have
> a nasty stain on your carpet and perhaps broken
> cups...........but if you haven't correctly brazed a
> critical joint on a frame, the fork crown for example you are
> putting your, and perhaps others, lives at risk!
>
> Saying this though I do see the attraction for those with the
> desire to build their own frame, I guess I was the same
> except I really wanted it to be my job, fortunately it has been.
> Be interesting to see what other framebuilders on this list
> think of people having a go at DIY frames?
>
> Cheers Kevin Sayles
> Bridgwater Somerset UK
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jan Heine" <heine94@earthlink.net>
> To: "Todd Grantham" <wtgrantham@comcast.net>;
> <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
> Sent: Sunday, April 12, 2009 9:58 PM
> Subject: Re: [CR] Geometry
>
>
> >
> > I am sorry to say it, but it is hard to see how you can become
> > proficient in brazing EVEN IF you spend two weeks full-time at a
> > class. Working metal is a craft that requires a lot of theoretical
> > knowledge, plus a lot of experience. And perhaps some inborn skills
> > (aka as a "touch" for the torch). In two weeks, you can
> hope to make a
> > first frame and gain some appreciation for all that you don't know.
> >
> > If somebody told me that they don't speak English, don't
> know how to
> > ride a bike, and want to publish a cycling magazine, but they don't
> > have 2 weeks to learn all that is involved, I would smile
> and excuse
> > myself to get back to work.
> >
> > Many of us have a great interest in how things are done, so Bicycle
> > Quarterly publishes a series called "Builders Speak," where
> builders
> > show their techniques. Seeing them in a magazine article and being
> > able to emulate them are two different things. It took me months of
> > training to become proficient at working in a machine shop, and the
> > few times I held a torch, I realized that to get good at
> brazing would take even longer.
> >
> > I have seen quite a few builders at work, and the best of
> them have a
> > feel for the torch that allows them to draw the brass (or silver)
> > where they want it, without using too much heat. That
> proficiency is
> > obtained through years of experience. Just like a good cyclist can
> > ride their bike through a gap barely 4 inches wider than their
> > handlebars. It's not something you pick up from a book.
> >
> > Jan Heine
> > Editor
> > Bicycle Quarterly
> > 140 Lakeside Ave #C
> > Seattle WA 98122
> > http://www.vintagebicyclepress.com