Re: [CR] In Praise of Saddle-Soaking

(Example: Framebuilding:Paint)

Date: Wed, 27 May 2009 21:10:25 -0700
From: Jerome & Elizabeth Moos <jerrymoos@sbcglobal.net>
To: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
Subject: Re: [CR] In Praise of Saddle-Soaking


One thing to add. If the sides of the saddle are spread, you can use cheap plastic large spring clamps to hold in the sides as the saddle dries. Wrap a cloth around the saddle to prevent the clamp from damaging the leather.

Regards,

Jerry Moos
Big SPring, Texas, USA


--- On Wed, 5/27/09, Jerome & Elizabeth Moos wrote:


> From: Jerome & Elizabeth Moos <jerrymoos@sbcglobal.net>

\r?\n> Subject: Re: [CR] In Praise of Saddle-Soaking

\r?\n> To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org

\r?\n> Date: Wednesday, May 27, 2009, 11:04 PM

\r?\n>

\r?\n> I've had several questions offlist about this.  Tony

\r?\n> Colegrave, Mike Barry and the lads in/from UK are the real

\r?\n> experts, but here is what I have observed:

\r?\n>

\r?\n> I used a cheap plastic bucket from Walmart and filled with

\r?\n> ordinary tap water, which in Big Spring, Texas tastes like

\r?\n> s**t, to totally submerge the saddle.

\r?\n>

\r?\n> Soak overnight at minimum.  Very dry saddles or thick

\r?\n> leather like old Brooks or old Ideale may take 2 or 3 days

\r?\n> to become wet and pliable.

\r?\n>

\r?\n> Only slightly sagged saddles may return to shape on their

\r?\n> own.  Otherwise once the leather is wet and pliable,

\r?\n> you can shape it with your fingers.

\r?\n>

\r?\n> It is reported that in extreme cases saddles can be stuffed

\r?\n> with newspaper and bound with toestraps etc to shape.

\r?\n>

\r?\n> While wet, you can clean with saddle sosp, rinse and soak

\r?\n> some more.

\r?\n>

\r?\n> I have dried naturally, either in the sun or indoors.

\r?\n>

\r?\n> Don't mess with tension until the saddle is dry, which may

\r?\n> take 2 or 3 days.

\r?\n>

\r?\n> Reportedly some of the experts have in extreme cases

\r?\n> removed the tension bolt before soaking.

\r?\n>

\r?\n> Discolored top can be addressed with shoe dye and maybe

\r?\n> shoe polish.

\r?\n>

\r?\n> Regards,

\r?\n>

\r?\n> Jerry Moos

\r?\n> Big Spring, Texas, USA 

\r?\n>

\r?\n> --- On Wed, 5/27/09, Jerome & Elizabeth Moos <jerrymoos@sbcglobal.net>

\r?\n> wrote:

\r?\n>

\r?\n> > From: Jerome & Elizabeth Moos <jerrymoos@sbcglobal.net>

\r?\n> > Subject: [CR] In Praise of Saddle-Soaking

\r?\n> > To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org

\r?\n> > Date: Wednesday, May 27, 2009, 8:57 PM

\r?\n> >

\r?\n> > We had a brief discussion recently on the subject or

\r?\n> > soaking leather saddles overnight or even a couple of

\r?\n> days

\r?\n> > in a bucket of water to rejuvenate them.  The idea

\r?\n> of

\r?\n> > soaking a saddle in a bucket of water had always

\r?\n> horrified

\r?\n> > me, as I suspect it does many on this side of the

\r?\n> Atlantic,

\r?\n> > although Tony Colegrave, perhaps the most prominant

\r?\n> CR

\r?\n> > expert on leather saddles, and Mike Barry, who grew up

\r?\n> in UK

\r?\n> > and also knows a thing or two about the subject, both

\r?\n> > testified to doing this rather routinely.

\r?\n> >

\r?\n> > Reassured by exchanges on and off list with Tony, I

\r?\n> gave it

\r?\n> > a try.  Initially I soaked the original B17 from my

\r?\n> > 1962 Schwinn Superior, with the cool older brass badge

\r?\n> and

\r?\n> > the '62 stamp on the cantle plate.  It was badly

\r?\n> > cracked and sagged, and I made matters worse with

\r?\n> massive

\r?\n> > Proofhide application top and bottom before reading

\r?\n> Tony's

\r?\n> > advice advising against using Proofhide on the

\r?\n> > underside.  This made it impossibly soft and I

\r?\n> feared

\r?\n> > it was ruined, so with nothing to lose I soaked it for

\r?\n> a

\r?\n> > couple of days.

\r?\n> >

\r?\n> > At the same time I soaked my very first Brooks saddle,

\r?\n> a

\r?\n> > Professional, an original purchase upgrade on my circa

\r?\n> 1973

\r?\n> > LeJeune.  It got an intense breakin on the 1974

\r?\n> > Northeast Ohio Century, of which the first 50 miles

\r?\n> were in

\r?\n> > heavy rain. It had been on several other bikes over

\r?\n> the last

\r?\n> > 35 years, most recently my 1986 Peugeot PZ-10.  It

\r?\n> had

\r?\n> > become dry, somewhat cracked and sagged on one side,

\r?\n> and I

\r?\n> > thought it had simply worn out.  So again nothing to

\r?\n> > loose.

\r?\n> >

\r?\n> > After a couple of days of soaking, I was astounded

\r?\n> with the

\r?\n> > results.  The Pro regained its shape and most small

\r?\n> > surface cracks were healed.  It is now on the Romic

\r?\n> > tourer I'm commuting on this week, and it looks and

\r?\n> feels

\r?\n> > fine. May not be good for another 35 years, but it

\r?\n> will now

\r?\n> > probably far outlive me.  With the B17, the cracked

\r?\n> top

\r?\n> > layer mostly flaked off in soaking.  I applied black

\r?\n> > shoe dye to the topside to restore the color and

\r?\n> treated

\r?\n> > with Proofhide.  Not exactly NOS, but the cool old

\r?\n> > badge and '62 stamp are desirable and it is back on

\r?\n> the 1962

\r?\n> > Superior and feels pretty good on test rides.

\r?\n> >

\r?\n> > This emboldened me to soak several other saddle, all

\r?\n> with

\r?\n> > great results:

\r?\n> >

\r?\n> > A French "Club" brand saddle with badly spread side

\r?\n> now has

\r?\n> > excellent shape again.

\r?\n> >

\r?\n> > A Titanum frame Ideale 90 with a pronounced raised

\r?\n> ridge

\r?\n> > down the center has had the ridge eliminated.

\r?\n> >

\r?\n> > An Ideale model 59 with alloy frame, but with a lot

\r?\n> of

\r?\n> > surface cracking and discoloration had the cracks

\r?\n> mostly

\r?\n> > healed and discloration addressed with shoe dye. 

\r?\n> List

\r?\n> > member Dave Abraham very recently fetched $455 on eBay

\r?\n> for a

\r?\n> > used and somewhat scuffed mod 59, which probably

\r?\n> exceeded

\r?\n> > Dave's expectations, so rejuvenating my mod 59 was

\r?\n> well

\r?\n> > worth the effort.

\r?\n> >

\r?\n> > With these spectacular results, I even soaked two

\r?\n> nearly

\r?\n> > new saddles, a Swift maybe 6 or 7 years old but with

\r?\n> only

\r?\n> > perhaps 500 km of use and a Swallow that was NOS 400

\r?\n> km and

\r?\n> > a few months ago.  Both had developed some lines and

\r?\n> a

\r?\n> > slight sag to one side.  Soaking corrected the shape

\r?\n> of

\r?\n> > each, which they hopefully will now hold longer.  I

\r?\n> > even soaked an NOS Ideale 87, which I will use to

\r?\n> replace my

\r?\n> > 1973 Brooks Pro on the PZ-10, but which had been

\r?\n> sitting in

\r?\n> > the parts bin and drying out for years and probably

\r?\n> > decades.

\r?\n> >

\r?\n> > Currently soaking an old Brooks Pro, probably 60's or

\r?\n> early

\r?\n> > 70's, that I long ago had given up for dead.  But

\r?\n> after

\r?\n> > two days in the bucket it looks pretty darned good. 

\r?\n> > BTW I note that the older Brooks saddles and Ideale

\r?\n> saddles,

\r?\n> > especially older models, seem to use thicker leather

\r?\n> that

\r?\n> > takes longer to thoroughly wet.

\r?\n> >

\r?\n> > I think all of this points out to me what Tony

\r?\n> Colegrave

\r?\n> > and many other leather saddle experts in UK and

\r?\n> elsewhere

\r?\n> > have long understood.  Namely, that leather, unlike

\r?\n> the

\r?\n> > modern plastic stuff, is an organic material, and

\r?\n> that

\r?\n> > maintaining proper moisture is the key to

\r?\n> performance. 

\r?\n> > In a wet climate like England, this may occasionally

\r?\n> require

\r?\n> > soaking used saddles, but in a desert climate like

\r?\n> here in

\r?\n> > West Texas, one may have to soak saddles more often or

\r?\n> even

\r?\n> > soak an NOS saddle that has sat for years in the parts

\r?\n> bin.

\r?\n> >

\r?\n> > Regards,

\r?\n> >

\r?\n> > Jerry Moos

\r?\n> > Big Spring, Texas, USA