As I seem to have been drawn into this thread (by proxy, if you will), I feel that it's appropriate that I should try to correct one or two misapprehensions regarding my views on the matter under discussion, albeit somewhat late in the day. E-mail correspondence is, IMO, an unsatisfactory medium in which to express oneself in a lucid and precise manner, and one which tends to exacerbate the old trans-Atlantic 'two nations, divided ....' syndrome, but, as it seems that this stuff is archived (?verb) for posterity, I'll try to make myself plain(er).
I don't think that soaking a saddle for longer than 24 hours will really enhance the process - overnight should be more than adequate. Longer soaking may initially improve the appearance of a 'badly cracked' saddle, but no amount of soaking will do anything to 'heal' these defects - if defects they are; most of us, especially if we're of a 'certain age' (only slightly older than most of the saddles that we're considering, in the main?), will have acquired a few cracks and creases of our own, but, although we're told that our living tissue can be 'repaired' to some extent that is not possible with dead animal skin, most (I hope) will prefer to see these 'defects' as conferring a degree of distinction. But, I digress...
The best 'treatment' for a badly cracked leather saddle, provided that it is stll structurally sound, is to ride it regularly, with love and the occasional light dressing of 'Proofide'. Most of these things have languished, unloved and neglected, for many years, and it can be surprising (sometimes, but not always) just how well they'll respond to a bit of TLC.
I think Jerry has mis-understood my comments about the leather 'tearing at the rivet holes' (which is where it usually occurs, of course). 'Abuse and overtightening' implies to me an active assault on the saddle, but I think that most of these things have been damaged simply by neglect; a leather saddle which has been kept in an unsuitable environment, often unused for many years, may well have 'lost it's nature', and the fibers (?American sp.) become brittle - once this has happened, nothing can feasibly be done to 'revive' it.
Little mention has been made of my concomitant advice that, after soaking and assessing that it's probable that the saddle still has a life worth saving, it's nearly always important to cleanse the leather with saddle soap; I do this in mildly warm water and, having rinsed the resulting crud away, I rub more soap into the leather and leave it to dry - saddle soap these days seems to contain considerably more glycerine than domestic soaps, and this will probably provide all the 'essential oil' that the saddle needs. As regards drying, I certainly don't advise the use of excessive heat, but I'd think that 'in a dark room' is probably taking it too far the other way; ideally, you'll need a good flow of air in a warm-ish environment - say, by an open window, on a Summer's day and out of direct sunlight, and it should be ready to dress (lightly, and topside only, I'd suggest) with 'Proofide' within 24 hours. However, 'in a dark room' may well be a very suitable environment for maintaining any such saddle when it's not in use; what I'd suggest is ideal, is a slightly damp cellar, with good air-flow and constant mild temperature - certainly no central heating. Might not suit the rest of the bike, though.
One thing that Jerry has most certainly mis-understood, is my opinion regarding the quality of the leather that Brooks are using for their current production. It's quite true that concerns have been expressed regarding the raw material available to tanners these days, and it may well be that even the best finished product 'lacks substance' compared with that available in the past (as has been suggested to me recently, regarding the stuff that I'm using), but I'm quite convinced that the leather used by Brooks (especially that awful material that those poor devils in B'ham are having to use to make the so-called 'aged' models) is nothing like the best that is currently available. I have had conversations with the Italian management of the Company, but I don't think it appropriate that I should discuss these in this forum - even if I had the time, which I really don't have at present.
Tony Colegrave, Northiam, E.Sussex, U.K.
> Date: Sat, 30 May 2009 10:34:08 -0700
> From: jerrymoos@sbcglobal.net
> To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org; johnb@oxford.net
> Subject: Re: [CR] Soaking saddles - The Expert Responds
>
>
> Tony had little time and only really responded to the issues of detensioning the saddle, probable cause of tearing at the rivets, and his opinion that presoaking won't help new saddles from inferior hides.
>
> I change the water after a day or overnight. Soaking will bring a lot of excess oils, including Proffide, to the surface, especially on the underside. I clean it off with saddle soap, sometimes using a scrub sponge - scrub sponge only on underside. I did this on an old Ideale model 44 just this morning. I've probably now soaked or am in process on 8 or 9 saddle. Almost every one has been a success. The two newish Brooks regained shape after the slight early sag, although Tony's comments might suggest this won't last. One old Brooks Pro that had good shape but was badly cracked improved a lot but was still pretty cracked after it dried. It's back in the bucket for another couple of days. Will dry more slowly indoors this time as Tony seems to suggests. I've yet to see a case where there wasn't at least some improvement and in no case has it done any harm.
>
> This should go without saying, but one way you CAN do harm is by tensioning the saddle while still wet.
>
> Regards,
>
> Jerry Moos
> Big Spring, Texas, USA
>
>
>
>
> --- On Sat, 5/30/09, John Betmanis <johnb@oxford.net> wrote:
>
> > From: John Betmanis <johnb@oxford.net>
> > Subject: Re: [CR] Soaking saddles - The Expert Responds
> > To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
> > Date: Saturday, May 30, 2009, 11:55 AM
> > At 08:28 AM 30/05/2009 -0700, Jerome
> > & Elizabeth Moos wrote:
> > >
> > >I've received an offlist response from Tony
> > Colegrave.
> > >
> > >In regard to tensioning, he advises that it can be a
> > sensible precaution
> > to detension or even remove the nose bolt before beginning
> > if circumstances
> > permit.
> > >
> >
> > Was there any response from anyone on or off-list whether
> > the water should
> > be changed when it turns black after several hours? My own
> > personal sense
> > would be not to change it because you'd end up leeching
> > more of the
> > "goodness" out of the saddle. I also wonder if it would
> > help to try and
> > scrape off any excess Proofide or try washing it off with
> > alcohol before
> > soaking, or would soaking eventually just lift it off
> > anyway?
> >
> > As for soaking hiking boots, as someone mentioned, I've
> > also heard that's
> > how you're supposed to break in new cowboy boots. Fill them
> > with water and
> > wear them night and day until they're dry. Not sure I'd
> > want to do that
> > with a pair that cost more than a titanium Brooks saddle.
> >
> > John Betmanis
> > Woodstock, Ontario
> > Canada