Re: [CR] Classicrendezvous Digest, Vol 80, Issue 44

In my opinion rants are useless. 1. they are very long normally. 2. not organized in a manner one can follow the meaning 3. contain some facts which can be distorted and out of context 4. contain opinion of the person giving it without knowing his or her knowledge of the subject and were it was obtained 5. tend to ramble on repeating themselves many times 6. no foot notes to show were facts were obtained. So why even bother to read one. Charles Nighbor Architect and Engineer _______________________________________________

------------------------------

Message: 6 Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 15:22:25 -0600 From: Cinorider <cinorider@gmail.com> Subject: [CR] Cino Heroica 2009 To: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Message-ID: <82f638640908101422r3d6d87bct6df4c3b18fdf8746@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"

I'm somewhat of a lurker on this list, but thought I'd let you know that vintage lightweight is alive and kicking in NW Montana. Here's a ride that we put on each year, Sept 12-13 this:

http://www.zaneray.com/cino-heroica/cino-heroica09.pdf

So if getting to Italy for L' Eroica is not in the budget, or you need a tune-up ride for same, we'd love to see you here.

reed

-- Reed Gregerson, Cinorider Kalispell, Montana 406-270-0590

------------------------------

Message: 7 Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 17:34:54 -0400 From: Angel Garcia <veronaman@gmail.com> Subject: [CR] USA source of Zullos frames To: CLASSIC RENDEZVOUS <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Message-ID: <70e14d4c0908101434j12186cf1v7422f9f5b5ed18a0@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"

I hope I don't step on anyone's toes but the MaxSilenus (a Columbus MAX bike limited edition of 20) is 2,020 Euro which doesn't translate to $3,999.

Angel Garcia Long Valley, NJ

---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Charles Nighbor <cnighbor1@comcast.net> Date: Mon, Aug 10, 2009 at 5:03 PM Subject: [CR] USA source of Zullos frames To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Cc: Charles Nighbor <cnighbor1@comcast.net>

''Only place you will see one is the hand made bike show in Richmond this year. All bikes are made to order so we really don't have dealers.

I am willing to deal direct

Niall (Neil) McAra

EU Cycle Imports

2554 Club House Drive

Wexford, PA 15090

p-724-940-9341

f-724-935-0074

c/m-724-816-0637

Skype niallmcara69

http://www.eucycleimports.com ''

Here is USA source of Zullo frames

Here is cost

FRAME MODEL DESCRIPTION WHOLESALE MSRP

Metro Cr Mo Complete bike(single or 3spd) $2975

Tonica /Metro CrMo dbl butted Tig Welded CrMo frk $2179

Inqubo Deda EOM 16.5 carbon fork $2879

Vergine Columbus XCR Stainless Carbon fork $4465

Tour 91 Columbus Spirit lugged 22mm oval frk $3235

Pista 85 Dbl Butted CrMo lugged Columbus 24mm frk $3235

Vintage Dbl Butted CrMo 80's style CrMoSteel fork $3535

MaxSilenus Columbus Max w/Max fork $3999

Nero Per Caso Full Carbon custom

Frigo CrMo fork w/Columbus tubing, stainless drops $549

EXTRAS

Custom size FREE

One-Off Graphic Design

4 color paint

Freight direct to your shop $100-$150

EU CYCLE IMPORTS

724-940-9341

http://www.eucycleimports.com

Web site for Zullo http://www.zullo-bike.com/

Note some frames are not steel but they do make steel lugged frames

A name we here little of here in USA

charles Nighbor

Walnut Creek, CA USA

_______________________________________________

-- You may enjoy reading my blog: http://www.italiancyclingjournal.blogspot.com

------------------------------

Message: 8 Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 18:11:29 -0400 From: <FujiFish1@aol.com> Subject: Re: [CR] eBay Outing ICS Magni To: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Message-ID: <d22.4a457a0a.37b1f511@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

Hey George, I've saved pics of a bunch of different Magni / Losa bikes and frames that have gone by on the Internet, one way or another. The existence of front derailleur tab, but no seat tube bottle bosses, speaks of approx. 1982-84 in general, but I guess it is conceivable that it's as late as 1987, as the

"875" stampings under the b.b. might suggest. I have a bunch of pics of a Magni-Ferrari frameset that was hanging in Dale's shop ... very similar, but no front der. tab, and there are Portacatena holes in the dropouts. That frame is stamped 826, which could logically stand for 1982. Pics of all the later framesets I can find, be they labeled Magni, Losa, etc. have water bottle bosses on the seat tube. Just some points for potential dating...

A gorgeous chrome frame that one on Ebay is ... thanks for outing it!

Ciao, Mark Agree Southfield MI USA ~ ~ ~

Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 15:58:04 -0400 From: George Hollenberg <ghollmd@gmail.com> Subject: [CR] eBay Outing ICS Magni To: Classic Rendezvous _classicrendezvous@bikelist.org_ (mailto:classicrendezvous@bikelist.org)

eBay # 200371856693 This is a nicely chromed ICS frameset made by Losa for ICS. These framesets were then finished in Zurich by ICS ( ItalCicliSystems), formerly owned by Mr. Artemio Granzotto. Dating of these famesets isn't always easy and this may be beyond the CR limit of 1983. I can reach Mr. Granzotto if there is any interest in this information. ICS chroming was among the best in the bike business. ICS dedicated itself pretty much to the "glitz" end of the trade. Of course, in the case of ICS, the collar is worth more than the dog-the corresponding ICS modified Campagnolo groups tend to be very pricey in chrome and crazy expensive in gold. That having been said, the framesets were built up to the clients' wishes--sometimes in mixtures of ICS and non ICS parts. Furthermore, sometimes, bikes were kitted with mixtures of SRecord and CRecord parts as well. This frameset looks to be in pretty nice shape-the decals can be had from Greg Softely in Australia. Although I'm friends with the seller, Mr. Granzotto and Greg Softely, I have no business connections with them other than as a client.

-- George

George Hollenberg MD CT, USA

------------------------------

Message: 9 Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 15:14:35 -0700 From: stef <stefmoreau@shaw.ca> Subject: [CR] WTB: Italian steel frameset: colnago, pinarello, bianchi or whatever you might have. To: <Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Message-ID: <000201ca1a07$f455d700$6700a8c0@stefmoreau> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

I'm looking for a older Italian steel frameset: colnago, pinarello, bianchi or whatever you might have. This is my first project and it has to be cheap, sorry..

Stef Moreau Victoria, British Columbia, Canada

Thank you.

------------------------------

Message: 10 Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 15:20:38 -0700 From: Al Van Varick <alvan519@cox.net> Subject: [CR] WTB Nuovo Record Off Side Crank Arm To: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Message-ID: <HCEBKCNBHLADNIOJMAIDEEBOEHAA.alvan519@cox.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Hello All, I'm looking for an orphan Nuovo Record Off Side crank arm in 172.5mm A 1983 vintage in excellent or NOS condition would be perfect but I will consider others. I have an 1982 170mm arm available for trade in perfect condition or I have cash. Thanks Al Van Varick Hemet, California, USA

-----Original Message----- From: classicrendezvous-bounces@bikelist.org [mailto:classicrendezvous-bounces@bikelist.org]On Behalf Of classicrendezvous-request@bikelist.org Sent: Monday, August 10, 2009 1:20 PM To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: Classicrendezvous Digest, Vol 80, Issue 43

Send Classicrendezvous mailing list submissions to classicrendezvous@bikelist.org

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://www.bikelist.org/mailman/listinfo/classicrendezvous or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to classicrendezvous-request@bikelist.org

You can reach the person managing the list at classicrendezvous-owner@bikelist.org

When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Classicrendezvous digest..."

------------------------------

Message: 11 Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 15:30:11 -0700 From: stef <stefmoreau@shaw.ca> Subject: [CR] WTB. more info to my previous post. To: <Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Message-ID: <000101ca1a0a$2215f560$6700a8c0@stefmoreau> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

Size between 50 to 55cm would be nice but since I will restore this frame I might not even ride it so size doesn't really matter.

Thank you.

------------------------------

Message: 12 Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 18:35:00 -0400 From: Bianca Pratorius <biankita@comcast.net> Subject: [CR] Outing of Colnago Super on Ebay To: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Message-ID: <d28c515fabcbbcc912b5477ac0a4409d@comcast.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"; format=flowed

The seller seems to be a nice enough guy but when challenged on ebay as to the age of his 'Nago he responds that he may be mistaken about the date. Now I can easily be mistaken about the year I did this or that or the month I first saw a cetain movie, but you can't really be mistaken about the exact day that the bike appeared on a Wide World of Sports segment. July 26 1976 marked the first coverage of Wide World of Sports of the Tour De France. I suspect the date was correct and maybe even some bike was featured but it wasn't this particular bike. Let me suggest an alternate history for the Colnago in question. The bike was purchased sometime in the early 80's as a mid level but nice Colnago from some shop in LA. Some local racer bought it and had it propped up beside his couch as he watched Tour coverage in the 80's and fantasized being a GC rider. Later his son had it stored in a storage locker and sold it to the present owner offering up a cockamamie story that he thought some gullible guy might swallow. He did swallow it and now he's regurgitating it for all our enjoyment.

Garth Libre in Miami Fl USA

------------------------------

Message: 13 Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 18:58:32 -0400 From: Ken Freeman <kenfreeman096@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [CR] WTB: Italian steel frameset: colnago, pinarello, bianchi or whatever you might have. To: stef <stefmoreau@shaw.ca> Cc: Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Message-ID: <7543b4a40908101558j31d3ba94g26ff0c09ea36b7a9@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"

Hello, Stef!

What size do you need?

Ken Freeman Ann Arbor, MI USA

On Mon, Aug 10, 2009 at 6:14 PM, stef <stefmoreau@shaw.ca> wrote:
> I'm looking for a older Italian steel frameset: colnago, pinarello,
> bianchi or whatever you might have. This is my first project and it has
> to be cheap, sorry..
>
>
> Stef Moreau
> Victoria, British Columbia, Canada
>
> Thank you.
> _______________________________________________
>

------------------------------

Message: 14 Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 19:14:48 -0400 From: Ken Freeman <kenfreeman096@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [CR] Witcomb Giro d'Italia Information Anyone ? To: r cielec <teaat4p@yahoo.com> Cc: Classic Rendezvous <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Message-ID: <7543b4a40908101614s7cb110f6gd106db9c5b3a9635@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"

Rich, often touring bikes have long chainstays to allow heel to pannier clearance. That need doesn't go away with a small rider. The foot MIGHT get smaller, but it might not.

I think it's still valuable to see if your chainstay tells us anything. But there's a problem, what to measure to. I measure from the BB center to the intersection of teh seatstay and chainstay centers. No CS measurement will be perfect due to the slot, but that technique gets me within a cm of what Trek put in their frame specs.

I'm very surprised by your Super Course short chainstays. Are you sure? It's really really short. If the seat tube is laid back in the same frame, I think they most likely have to be longer. My 53 cm 1973 Super Course has a 73 degree seat tube and 44 cm chainstays. My 51cm (c-c) Masi has a 75 degree seat tube and 40 cm chainstays. Yours at 38 cm are tiny.

On my Woodrup with a Blackburn rack and Madden packs, I got heel strike, and it has 44 cm stays with a 73 degree seat tube. I don't have big feet, 8.5, so it can still be a problem with smaller bikes and riders.

Ken Freeman Ann Arbor, MI USA

On Mon, Aug 10, 2009 at 2:59 PM, r cielec <teaat4p@yahoo.com> wrote:
> hi,
> i have yet measured stay length (or i've forgotten what i did measure) but
> the frame is small approx 48-49 c-t and, this, i assume, will geometrically
> force relatively smaller stay lengths that may or may not synch-up with rule
> of thumb guidelines. example, not witcomb: my raleigh super course mkII has
> a chain stay length of approx 380 - 385; yet, i don't think this was
> marketed as a race oriented model.
>
> as an aside, i realize i tend to ask some peculiar questions regarding
> frames and fitments but with smaller frames, "all bets are off" and much of
> the common wisdom and fixes don't hold. in my limited experience, it is
> indeed rare that one sees a smaller frame that was actually constructed with
> sensitivity. thank goodness for craftsmen such as ernesto colnago and brian
> bayliss who inherently understand small frame requirements. i'm sure there
> are others but, my knowldege is quite parochial.
>
> all the best,
>
> richard cielec
> chicago, illinois; u.s.a.
>
> --- On Sun, 8/9/09, John Wood <braxton72@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> From: John Wood <braxton72@gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [CR] Witcomb Giro d'Italia Information Anyone ?
> To: oroboyz@aol.com
> Cc: teaat4p@yahoo.com, classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
> Date: Sunday, August 9, 2009, 12:04 PM
>
> Richard,
> Regardless of frame angles, simply measuring the chain stay length will go
> a long way to determining it's intended use.
> > 435mm indicates a more touring oriented frame, < 435 indicates a racier
> model.
>
>
> John
>
> On Sun, Aug 9, 2009 at 10:36 AM, <oroboyz@aol.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> <<?My particular bike S/N 2040 578 is fitted with a TA triple but,
>
> because the steer tube was cut without spacer for a Campag road head set,
> center
>
> pull brakes are out of the question thereby ruling out a proper touring
> build. >>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> There is always the option of drilling the stem for the center pull cable
> stop... Some may tremble at the thought but it has worked very well in many
> instances....
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Dale Brown
>
>
>
> Greensboro, North Carolina USA
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
>
> From: r cielec <teaat4p@yahoo.com>
>
> To: Classic Rendezvous <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
>
> Sent: Sun, Aug 9, 2009 1:46 am
>
> Subject: [CR] Witcomb Giro d'Italia Information Anyone ?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Ahoy !
>
> Re: Witcomb Giro d'Italia, 1979 (U.K. built)
>
> Anyone have any information on this model ?
>
> Regret to admit, I do not know how to measure frame angles so, I cannot
> deduce
>
> the intended use of this model.
>
> I was told it was their top model but, I have not been able to confirm
> this.
>
> Incidentally: My particular bike S/N 2040 578 is fitted with a TA triple
> but,
>
> because the steer tube was cut without spacer for a Campag road head set,
> center
>
> pull brakes are out of the question thereby ruling out a proper touring
> build.
>
>
>
> Thank you.
>
>
>
> Richard Cielec
>
> Chicago, Illinois; U.S.A.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Classicrendezvous mailing list
>
> Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
>
> http://www.bikelist.org/mailman/listinfo/classicrendezvous
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Classicrendezvous mailing list
>
> Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
>
> http://www.bikelist.org/mailman/listinfo/classicrendezvous
>
>
>
>
> --
> John Wood
> Missoula, Montana, USA
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Classicrendezvous mailing list
> Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
> http://www.bikelist.org/mailman/listinfo/classicrendezvous
>

------------------------------

_______________________________________________ Classicrendezvous mailing list Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org http://www.bikelist.org/mailman/listinfo/classicrendezvous

End of Classicrendezvous Digest, Vol 80, Issue 44 *************************************************

_______________________________________________ Classicrendezvous mailing list Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org http://www.bikelist.org/mailman/listinfo/classicrendezvous