<< Kind of odd that Falcon and Kessels, and
according to a post earlier today, Allegro were all licensed to sell Eddy Merckx bikes, evidently all at the same time. Perhaps Eddy only gave each manufacturer exclusive rights within the country of manufacture.>>
And don't forget Miyata in Japan...
Dale
Dale Brown
Greensboro, North Carolina USA
-----Original Message----- From: Jerome & Elizabeth Moos <jerrymoos@sbcglobal.net> To: hilary.stone@blueyonder.co.uk; oroboyz@aol.com Cc: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Sent: Sun, Sep 6, 2009 7:35 pm Subject: Re: [CR] Supposed Merckx De Rosa on English Ebay
I'm pretty sure I remember seeing at least one Falcon-built Merckx in Molteni colors on eBay a couple of years ago. Kind of odd that Falcon and Kessels, and according to a post earlier today, Allegro were all licensed to sell Eddy Merckx bikes, evidently all at the same time. Perhaps Eddy only gave each manufacturer exclusive rights within the country of manufacture. And the Speedbicycles photos might suggest that perhaps DeRosa and Colnago might have been selling EM bikes as well. Of course those two might have been actual team frames. Neither one seems to have a brazeon for fitting a number plate, but in Eddy's photo book "The Fabulous World of Cycling" there are lots of shots of bikes with no number plate, and lots more of number plates that appear to be clamped or tied around the toptube. So evidently the use of a brazeon boss for the number plate was far from universal during Merckx's career. Note that Merckx's 1974 (Montreal) World Championship bike, pictured in Jan Heine's book, also lacks a number plate fitting. So at this point it isn't clear whether DeRosa and Colnago sold EM bikes or only supplied actual team frames. The Colnago on Speedbicycles is particularly puzzling, as it has Colnago as well as Merckx decals, including a "Colnago Super" decal on the chainstay. I don't believe I've ever seen a photo of Merckx, once he left Peugeot, riding a bike with a manufacturer's name on it, although he was not adverse to lug cutouts like the DeRosa heart. The only exception I have seen was that infamous Hour Record bike that the Mexican organizers insisting on slapping Windsor decals onto.
I suspect that Merckx must hold the record as the racer with the most different manufacturers having built bikes bearing his name. BTW, does anyone know who the lead builder/builders have been for the bikes built by Eddy's own company? I've never heard any suggestion that Eddy ever built a frame himself, but I also don't think I ever heard the name of any individual builder of frames from the Merckx factory.
Regards,
Jerry Moos
Bog Spring, Texas, USA
> From: oroboyz@aol.com <oroboyz@aol.com>
> Subject: Re: [CR] Supposed Merckx De Rosa on English Ebay
> To: hilary.stone@blueyonder.co.uk, jerrymoos@sbcglobal.net
> Cc: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
> Date: Sunday, September 6, 2009, 3:16 PM
>
> << None of the Falcon built Merckx bikes as far as I
> know
> were painted in Molteni colours. >>
> I sold the Falcon line and it's Eddy Merckx companion
> models in my second shop (The Carolina Pedal Shop) in 1973
> & 74. We had a few Molteni team colored top of the line
> Falcons, as well as a surprise shipment which included
> a?similar but?Kessels built. The wholesaler apologized for
> substituting the Kessels, but we were excited to have it.
> The Kessels was more crit style with big beefy seat stays
> and steeper/shorter geometry...
>
>
>
> Dale Brown
>
> Greensboro, North Carolina USA
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Hilary Stone <hilary.stone@blueyonder.co.uk>
> To: Jerome & Elizabeth Moos <jerrymoos@sbcglobal.net>
> Cc: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
> Sent: Sun, Sep 6, 2009 3:50 pm
> Subject: Re: [CR] Supposed Merckx De Rosa on English Ebay
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Its well established that De Rosa helped Merckx set up his
> factory. And
> its well established that De Rosa built frames for the
> Molteni team
> between at least 1974 and 1978 (by which time it had become
> Fiat
> sponsored). Brett Horton established that in an interview
> with EM a few
> years ago - we also have the evidence of the bike in 'The
> Competition
> Bicycle', another at De Rosa and one in an Italian museum
> as well as a
> number of others in private collections. Despite the
> Speedbicycle Merckx
> De Rosa I am not at all certain that De Rosa built Merckx
> DR Team
> replicas. The genuine Merckx DR Molteni team bicycles all
> seem to lack
> hearts in the lugs and fork crown but have hearts in the DT
> and ST tangs
> of the BB shell. What is certain is that DR built DR frames
> in Molteni
> colours but with the DR name on the down tube rather than
> Eddy Merckx...?
> ?
>
> Kessels also built bicycles for the Molteni team at the
> same time as
> they were supplied by DR. And there are quite a few Merckx
> Kessels
> machine around - Kessels had the licence to use the Merckx
> name in
> Belgium at least, during most of the 70s. Many of these are
> in Molteni
> team colours. None of the Falcon built Merckx bikes as far
> as I know
> were painted in Molteni colours.?
> ?
>
> The frame in question has certain features like a DR - the
> finishing on
> the rear dropouts is very DR in style. The BB shell is
> superficially
> like a DR and the head lugs do not look DR like... The fork
> crown could
> be like DR used but its difficult to tell with any
> certainty from the
> pics. And of course the Campag Portacatena rear dropouts
> means that the
> frame was built after the demise of the Molteni team unless
> the dropouts
> had been changed. Campag Portacatena dropouts I believe
> were first
> available in 1977/78. What I was hoping was that those who
> have had more
> experience with DRs than me might comment on the frame...?
> ?
>
>
> Hilary Stone, Bristol, British Isles?
> ?
>
> Jerome & Elizabeth Moos wrote:?
>
> > I've heard that Eddy consulted with Ugo DeRosa in
> setting up production of his bikes, but I believe that was
> only after Eddy's competitive career ended.? Eddy rode
> through the 1978 season.? Judging from the
> first-generation Super Record RD, this bike is probably from
> 1974 or 1975, when Eddy was still with Molteni.? AFAIK,
> Eddy never had any direct involvement in bike production
> during his competitive career.? This looks to be one of
> the Molteni replica bikes for which Eddy licensed use of his
> name.? It has been established that such bikes were
> manufactured both by Falcon and by Kessels.? I've never
> heard that DeRosa had anything to do with those replicas,
> although he may have built some of Eddy's personal bikes, or
> maybe even some for Eddy's teammates.?
>
> >
> > I see no reason to believe this is anything other than
> a Falcon or Kessels built replica from Merckx's years at
> Molteni.? Nice bike, relatively rare first generation
> SR RD, but I'm not sure that justifies the 1,750 GBP
> BIN.? I think one should simply ignore the dubious
> reference to DeRosa.?
>
> >
> > A while back someone posted a link to some
> Kessels-built Molteni replicas, and perhaps Falcon-bulit
> ones as well.? If someone still has that link, it might
> be interesting to compare those bikes to this one.?
>
> >
> > Regards,?
>
> >
> > Jerry Moos?
>
> >
> > --- On Sun, 9/6/09, Hugh Thornton <hughwthornton@yahoo.co.uk>
> wrote:?
>
> >
> >> From: Hugh Thornton <hughwthornton@yahoo.co.uk>?
>
> >> Subject: Re: [CR] Supposed Merckx De Rosa on
> English Ebay?
>
> >> To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org?
>
> >> Date: Sunday, September 6, 2009, 10:59 AM?
>
> >> What is disturbing about this listing?
>
> >> is that it sidesteps the issue of saying what it
> actually?
>
> >> is.? To quote:?
> >> "The frame is a very early, DE ROSA consulted,
> 'MERCKX'?
>
> >> brand item, made of COLUMBUS tubing with
> CAMPAGNOLO?
>
> >> dropouts"?
>
> >>?
>
> >> Whatever that means.? The frame is claimed to
> be "DE ROSA?
>
> >> consulted" which doesn't say that De Rosa built
> it, just?
>
> >> that they allegedly consulted with whoever
> did.? "MERCKX?
>
> >> brand" just means that whoever built it stuck
> Merckx decals?
>
> >> on it, with or without permission.? It looks
> like the?
>
> >> vendor is going to great pains to avaoid saying
> that it is a?
>
> >> De Rosa Merckx while wanting to imply that it
> is..?
>
> >>?
>
> >> Could it even be a Falcon Merckx frame that has
> had a bit?
>
> >> of fettling before its repaint?? Except I
> think the Falcons?
>
> >> were 531 and this is said to be Columbus.? I
> think that?
>
> >> anyone contemplating offering for this should try
> to get a?
>
> >> straight explanation of what the frame actually
> was/is?
>
> >> because I otherwise consider that it has no real
> interest or?
>
> >> historic value -- just a nice looking bike with
> nice?
>
> >> equipment that has been made to look like a
> Merckx.? Does?
>
> >> anybody know if Ugo De Rosa consulted with any
> other?
>
> >> manufacturers to give a possible clue as to what
> the vendor?
>
> >> meant??
>
> >> Hugh Thornton?
>
> >> Cheshire, England?
>
> >>?
>
> >> --- On Sat, 5/9/09, Hilary Stone <hilary.stone@blueyonder.co.uk>?
>
> >> wrote:?
>
> >>?
>
> >> From: Hilary Stone <hilary.stone@blueyonder.co.uk>?
>
> >> Subject: [CR]? Supposed Merckx De Rosa on
> English?
>
> >> Ebay?
>
> >> To:
> >> Cc: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org?
>
> >> Date: Saturday, 5 September, 2009, 7:36 PM?
>
> >>?
>
> >> Just recently what purports to be Merckx De Rosa
> bike has?
>
> >> been listed on English Ebay - item number
> 160359704131? Its?
>
> >> obviously rather late to be a Molteni Merckx De
> Rosa - the?
>
> >> dropouts are Campy Portacatena though they do
> appear to be?
>
> >> finished in the De Rosa style. However the lugs -
> in?
>
> >> particular the head lugs don't look De Rosa to
> me... I'd be?
>
> >> interested to hear what other CR members who have
> seen many?
>
> >> more De Rosas than I have think...?
>
> >>?
>
> >>?
>
> >> Hilary Stone, Bristol, British Isles?
>
> >>?
>
> >> _______________________________________________?
>
> >> Classicrendezvous mailing list?
>
> >> Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org?
>
> >> http://www.bikelist.org/
>
> >>?
>
> >>?
>
> >>?
>
> >>? ? ???
> >> _______________________________________________?
>
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>
> >> Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org?
>
> >> http://www.bikelist.org/
>
> >>?
>
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>
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