So, given proper position, you would not allow that differences in frame geometry can affect comfort?
On Sun, Jan 31, 2010 at 6:07 PM, paccoastcycles <
paccoastcycles@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> I'll let you know how shallow I am. I don't like the looks of how Gios seat
> stays are positioned at the seat lug. To my eye, if tehy are attached to the
> side of the seat lug, they should intersect where the center lines of the
> two tubes intersect. To put them back behind that line, but still on the
> seat lug just makes them look haphazardly placed to my eye. This bias of
> mine regarding the placement of the stay on the seat lug of course does not
> apply to fastback stays or other styles that don't put the stay on the side
> of the lug.
>
> I'm being open about this being a preference that is aesthetic in nature.
> In general, I like other aspects of Gios bikes I've seen. As far as the
> "build quality" of them in relation to "M" bikes, all of the Gios frames
> I've seen have investment cast lugs. Generally, investment cast lugs do not
> require much work with the file. Therefore, the bikes tend to be very
> uniform (all filed by the same person, no one) and they look like very well
> filed lugs. That could be the reason they look better to you than "M" bikes.
> I've never seen an "M" bike from any of the builders that made them that
> looked structurally poor. In other words, I doubt the Gios is better, at
> least in the structural sense.
>
> As far as the "steepness" or "comfort" issue goes, it is the most
> misrepresented, overstated, silly aspect of what goes on in the realm of
> bicycle folklore and worse yet, in the bicycle marketplace. My position on
> this (pun intended) is that it is the rider's position on the bike that
> allows comfort or makes for discomfort. No frame material has a
> characteristic that will overcome improper position and in my experience,
> much BS has been used to coat the "materials characteristics" of bicycles
> with exaggerated properties.
>
> Of course, another factor that colors comfort on bikes is the rider's
> relative state of condition. Were you ever uncomfortable on a bike when you
> were 25 years old and rode harder and longer?
>
> Chuck Hoefer
> Vista, California USA
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kevin Kruger" <ktk1_7_0_2_8@yahoo.com>
> To: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
> Cc: <t2moseman@juno.com>
> Sent: Sunday, January 31, 2010 8:41 AM
> Subject: [CR] GIOS - My thoughts
>
>
>
> I always find it interesting that the GIOS Record/Super Record frames don't
> get the respect they deserve. In my opinion, GIOS framesets are of the
> highest quality, and the ride quality is simply outstanding. Whenever
> someone asks me about good buys on a vintage bike, I always suggest a GIOS
> frame, because so many folks are more impressed with what I refer to as
> "snob" marques.
>
> Sure, they were built with short top tubes, but once compensated with a
> longer stem, you have an outstanding riding machine. I find it interesting
> to hear them described as not being comfortable or overly steep, as I could
> ride mine all day long without any discomfort or pain. Understand that ride
> "quality" is subject to personal preferences, so take my comments for what
> they are worth. I put in pretty many actual miles on all my bikes, so they
> simply don't collect "Looking at" dust.
>
> Every time I ride mine and wipe it clean, I am impressed with the build
> quality throughout. Yes, much better than most of my other highly regarded
> "M" branded machines.
>
> I recall Rodney Moseman's reaction when I handed my frame to him to him in
> the early 1980s,,,,,"wow, this frame is light!". For those who don't know
> Rodney, he owned a local PA shop and built some pretty respectable frames. A
> true gentleman to boot.
>
> If anyone wants to see a bunch of photos detailing my GIOS, you can view
> them at the following Wool Jersey address:
>
> http://www.wooljersey.com/
>
> There is actually a pretty nice factory chrome-plated GIOS Professional on
> eBay right now that is tempting me to buy it!
>
> Regards,
> Kevin Kruger - Grantville, PA
>
>
>
>
>
>
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--
Ken Freeman
Ann Arbor, MI USA