Jerry,
I don't see any issues with discourse on this list about this subject. If a list member has an issue with a painter/restorer and wants to out it to the list the forum should be open to such discussions, whether it be for advice or to out that particular trades person who they believe has treated them in an unfair manner.
I've met Jim Cunningham at Cirque more than once and struck up a few conversations. Personally I've no axe to grind with Jim or Cycleart, but this being a free forum, I believe we are open to comment, unless Dale Brown asks us as a group to end that string of conversation on the list.
Regards,
Peter Naiman
Glendale, WI USA
From: Jerry Tenenberg <jtenenberg@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [CR] Disappointing Cyclart experience To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Date: Tuesday, May 18, 2010, 8:55 PM
This should not be a forum to argue deal points. I was treated with absolute clarity and consideration when I had Cyclart repair and repaint the top and downtube on a 74 Moto Champion Team. I made sure I knew what I was getting and I got it. Jerry Tenenberg Encinitas, Cal
On Tue May 18th, 2010 6:46 PM PDT Andrew R Stewart wrote:
>Peter- The problem with the phone is you can't see the bike. Yes a photo can be taken but one really has to handle the thing to access it. The "ship to" is usually the buyers cost.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Peter Naiman
> To: paul.ozzello@b2b2c.ca ; classicrendezvous@bikelist.org ; Andrew R Stewart
> Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2010 8:58 PM
> Subject: Re: [CR] Disappointing Cyclart experience
>
>
> Andrew,
>
> I'm not sure why you take issue with Paul. I'm not trying to start an argument on the list, but I do disagree with your opinion. Paul according to what I've read gave Jim Cunningham very specific information as to what he wanted done with the frame, and why. Then after conversations, Paul went through the trouble and cost of shipping the frame from Montreal to California, which can't be inexpensive. From there he recieved estimates for work that was not what he specifically asked for.
>
> Once Paul gave his info to Jim, to here "going on about how his painters/artists wouldn't find much motivation from such a job, that there was little satisfaction or gratification to be had from such a project" is not what I'd want to hear from a professional, and frankly I'd probably be insulted. I don't always adhere to the old proverb "the customer is always right", but in this instant I believe Paul has been wronged, and treated very poorly by Cycleart.
>
> With regard to Sue's letter to Paul there might be some miscommunications at Cyclart, so on that one I'll give them the benefit of the doubt. so to finish up my long diatribe, I believe Paul was wronged for cost of shipping and the way he was treated. A proposal does not equal a contract, but Paul wasn't given what he asked for.
>
> Best regards,
> Peter Naiman
> Glendale, WI USA
>
> --- On Tue, 5/18/10, Andrew R Stewart <onetenth@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>
> From: Andrew R Stewart <onetenth@earthlink.net>
> Subject: Re: [CR] Disappointing Cyclart experience
> To: paul.ozzello@b2b2c.ca, classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
> Date: Tuesday, May 18, 2010, 7:28 PM
>
>
> Paul- There is much about your post that I take issue with. But what most gets to me most is that you have not been wronged yet you accuse. Tending a proposal is not a contract to do the job to the buyer's specs.
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: <paul.ozzello@b2b2c.ca>
> To: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2010 1:15 PM
> Subject: [CR] Disappointing Cyclart experience
>
>
> >
> > I sent my 1985 Bianchi Veloce to Cyclart for repair. It's a middle of the road
> > model that doesn't have much monetary value, but it was my first real bike and
> > I won a number of races with it when I was a kid; so it has a great deal of
> > sentimental value. The top tube has a minor dent from a collision I had with a
> > car 25 years ago that I've wanted to have repaired ever since. A number of
> > people recommended Cyclart so I emailed Jim Cunningham.
> >
> > I told him what I wanted done, remove the dent, keep the existing paint, and
> > touch up some of the larger eyesores. He said that was a pretty basic repair
> > and suggested I send it to him for an estimate. When I eventually got the
> > estimate, it was for a dent repair and a cheap powder coat. I called Jim and
> > explained to him how keeping the original paint was very important to me, that
> > I didn't mind if it didn't come out perfect.
> >
> > You could tell from the conversation he didn't want to be bothered, ld him how much the bike meant to me, he appeared to
> > understand and accepted to give me a quote for the work requested. Several few
> > weeks later, Jim obviously changed his mind; I got a mail from Susan with the
> > original estimate (dent removal plus re-finish).
> >
> > I contacted Cyclart once again asking for a quote for a complete CycleTique
> > treatment for the frame realizing it would be costly. Apparently, Cyclart has
> > no interest in doing the work and offered to send me back the frame as is.
> >
> > Were my expectations too high? I was willing to spend considerably more than
> > what the bike was worth for a simple frame repair and explained it to them long
> > before I ever sent them the frame. I wrongly assumed Cyclart would understand
> > the passion emotion and history that an owner can have with a particular bike;
> > what a disappointment.
> >
> > Could someone recommend a shop that would do such a repair?
> >
> >
> > Paul Ozzello
> >
> > Montreal Canada
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Classicrendezvous mailing list
> > Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
> > http://www.bikelist.org/
> Andrew R Stewart
> Rochester, NY
> _______________________________________________
> Classicrendezvous mailing list
> Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
> http://www.bikelist.org/
>
>
>Andrew R Stewart
>Rochester, NY