[CR] RE : framebuilding in 5 days!!!

(Example: Racing:Jacques Boyer)

From: "Steve Birmingham" <sbirmingham@mindspring.com>
To: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
Date: Sat, 5 Jun 2010 17:07:45 -0400
Thread-Index: AcsE8yRRKzgqxI93QGiUbjAPV5Af0A==
Subject: [CR] RE : framebuilding in 5 days!!!


I think learning the old fashioned way will make someone a better builder.

But many classes are 1-2 weeks. Some of them don't involve lugs, but rather are for tig welding. That's a bit easier to learn than proper torch and heat control. They're also pretty intensive courses, in shops that have lots of equipment. So the tubes may be mitered on a milling machine. In an intensive course, say 10 hours a day with no time out to fetch fish and chips, I think a simple frame could be put together by someone with some raw talent and lots of supervision. But that would be one frame for one person. The rest would depend on how much of what was taught they retained. And it would be hard to retain enough from one week to make a go of it commercially.

I've been slowly (Some would say glacially) working towards making my first frame. Pretty challenging. I have a good bit of experience with hydraulic tubing, which is softer and thicker than bike tubing. It took a few practice joints before I got one that I thought would be ok for a frame. The earlier ones were solid with good penetration, but were probably overheated. They were also pretty ugly since I used a bit too much filler. Not so bad now, and I'll probably order some parts soonish.

Steve Birmingham Lowell, Massachusetts USA

Message: 2 Date: Sat, 5 Jun 2010 18:16:42 +0100 From: "kevin sayles" <kevinsayles@tiscali.co.uk> Subject: [CR] framebuilding in 5 days!!! To: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Message-ID: <F7D1CD13DB814700844CAA553003EA5D@UserPC> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Having just come across another one of these ...'build your own frame'........in 5 days! classes......I wonder what the list, or individuals think of the Idea [I won't disclose the name of the class out of respect] Now I know there are some good classes out there, like Doug Fattics, but I would imagine the length of the course would be somewhat longer than 5 days?

I don't know.......maybe its because I've been a framebuilder since 71......and I was taught slowly, methodically and became 'in tune' with working with metal.......I just can't see how anyone can produce a decent [safe] frame in 5 days.

If I were to teach someone the skills in framebuilding [actually something I may seriously consider in the future] I wouldn't try and rush them into producing a frame within such a short timescale. I just can't imagine when I first started at Bob jackson's in June 71 that at the end of the first week I would have made my first frame!.........I remember we had Matt Assenmacher come over from the states to learn, and Danny Foster [the master builder and my mentor] 'rushed' Matt through the basics, but from memory he was with us for at least 6 months! [and went on to be a very accomplished framebuilder]

I seem to remember it was several months before I was allowed to use a brazing torch, before then I was filing lugs, cutting tubes........going for the fish and chips on a Friday!...filing more lugs and so on.......until finally, with Danny supervising me, I brazed up a pair of Campag dropouts into the chainstays......

I think some of these courses merely skirt around the basics.........I mean, in 5 days your going to learn how to;- cut and file lugs....... cut and mitre tubes [to the correct length!] learn about the geometry, angles, clearances etc, and what is and isn't the best set up for a particular frame........ learn how to braze, be it capillary or perhaps even more tricky, fillet brazing....... learn how to keep the frame in alignment!...... Then there's the cleaning up, filing and finishing.......as well as cutting & reaming etc. Any one of those tasks would take more than 5 days to become proficient........oh, I don't know maybe I'm just having a whinge......but it does touch a 'nerve'

sorry for the rant.........

Kevin Sayles
Bridgwater Somerset UK