I found the number W8774 on the all nickel plated Raleigh Carlton I bought this week. Any ideas?
Bill Koonce Seattle, WA
classicrendezvous-request@bikelist.org wrote:
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>CR
>
>Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Now: "concours crisis" or "marquee madness" Was: RE: Con
> Denti (Dr. Paul B. Williams)
> 2. Re: FS: 1983 Plum Vainqueur candy apple red (Jim Merz)
> 3. Re: Ebay Outing: 53cm Zeus/Otero, Spence-Wolff, Maxicar, 58T
> TA (Kurt Sperry)
> 4. Re: con denti pedali (Charles Andrews)
> 5. Re: Ebay Outing: 53cm Zeus/Otero, Spence-Wolff, Maxicar, 58T
> TA (loudeeter@aol.com)
> 6. Cottered crank advice (Tom Martin)
> 7. 64cm Roy Thame on Chicago Craigslist (Paul A. Grens)
> 8. Jack Taylor - Forks ? ? (Stephen Reker)
> 9. Dancelli Road Bike (Jerry Jeter & Sandy Wallace)
> 10. Joel Dressner, please contact me (Kevin Kruger)
> 11. Re: Jack Taylor - Forks ? ? (Derek Athey)
> 12. Re: Cottered crank advice (verktyg)
>
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>Message: 1
>Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2010 11:32:56 -0400
>From: "Dr. Paul B. Williams" <castell5@sympatico.ca>
>Subject: [CR] Now: "concours crisis" or "marquee madness" Was: RE: Con
> Denti
>To: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
>Message-ID: <COL114-W17441C940CD20DDF696535E4D90@phx.gbl>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
>
>Ah Matthew, we all do it - call it "marquee madness," "concours d'elegance crisis" - it is the addictive illness which binds us together in our endeavours. I am such an addict; I'll say it again I am an addict. I too have wrestled with the demons of whether or not I can get away with "non-period-correct" components; whether some PC (that is "period-correct") bike police will turn up at my workshop or pull me over on the side of the road for using (gulp) clipless pedals on my 1982 Bob Jackson!
>
>As I wrote last week, I build with an eye to one day showing off my latest project at Cirque, but must temper this with the reality that the likelihood of that is rare. Moreover, the reality is that there are few here in Ottawa (there are a few of us CR types around) who would know or care whether I used a 1948 rather than a 1950 part on my 1948 Carpenter.
>
>Why then? Because - we know!! A colleague of my dad's who made museum-quality boat models was once asked why he made excruciatingly detailed working motors for his boats - which would never be seen by anyone. His reply was: "because I know they are there!"
>
>But then we stop and think - it is really part of the collector's game; the hunt; treasure-hunting for that elusive prize. We crave authenticity. It is the joy of seeing and riding a bike built up the way it was intended. With that in mind, I battle and bid on EBay hoping to get a deal and
>fight
>back a
>conscience which dictates that it is insane to pay $300 for an Osgear. I beg fellow listers, and anyone I encounter online who has
>similar interests, for parts. I plead with my wife to allow me to buy that one last part needed to complete my masterpiece.
>
>It is the collector's curse, but then the reality - I can go and ride that bike. Try that with a stamp collection!!
>
>Now if only I could find someone to pay top dollar for the mint condition 1987 XJ6 dashboard which the previous owner of our house left in our garage loft ... ;^)
>
>Paul Williams,
>Ottawa, ON, Canada
>
>Dr. Paul B. Williams, BAH, MPhil, PhD
>Instructor,
>Dept. of Geography and Environmental Studies,
>Carleton University, Ottawa, ON, Canada
>
>
>
>
>> Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2010 10:15:25 -0400
>> From: dennisflange@gmail.com
>> To: devotion_finesse@hotmail.com; classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
>> Subject: [CR] Con Denti
>>
>> Hi Matthew,
>> I too enjoyed your post. I do not, however, understand your resistance to
>> fitting a pair of pedals to the Frejus that would allow you to ride it. The
>> bike won't mind, I assure you (I asked my Frejus and was informed thus), and
>> there is no way a lesser pair will damage your fine crankset. The authority
>> figures in your cosmos won't know, and I suspect God has other, more
>> pressing concerns.
>>
>> Your shoes, be they Detto Pietro or otherwise, will cope. Your bikie friends
>> will understand. Lamp posts will not snicker as you pass.
>>
>> This obsession, if you feed it, is gonna cost you big-time. The desire to
>> ride the magic Frejus will win out over frugality. Some dark hour of the
>> morning will find your bloodshot eyes illuminated by a computer screen as
>> your trembling finger hovers over, than touches the button that seals your
>> bid of $41,949.63 for the last remaining unsold pair of Con Denti pedals in
>> the world. All your things will be sold or repossessed, your wife will leave
>> you, your children will abandon you for squandering their inheritance, you
>> will be thrown out of your hovel whose stoop you will be forced to haunt
>> until the day the man in brown drops a small, surprisingly heavy package
>> into your filthy, shaking claws. Cackling with demented glee, you'll stumble
>> to a nearby alley where you have stashed your last possessions: the Frejus,
>> and a Campagnolo pedal wrench, unused, still in its rosewood presentation
>> case lined with purple velvet.
>>
>> Later, your body will be found, your face frozen in an expression of deepest
>> despair. In your hand, a lump of coal. Scrawled on the wall above your
>> lifeless form, the cryptic words, "French thread!!!"
>>
>> --
>>
>> Michael Shiffer
>> EuroMeccanica, Inc.
>> 114 Pearl Street
>> Mount Vernon, NY 10550
>> (914) 668-1300
>> euromeccanicany.com
>> _______________________________________________
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 2
>Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2010 08:38:49 -0700
>From: Jim Merz <jameshmerz@gmail.com>
>Subject: Re: [CR] FS: 1983 Plum Vainqueur candy apple red
>To: jim abt <jamesabt@charter.net>
>Cc: Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
>Message-ID:
> <AANLkTilYzmjW73YW7OG1nbgKMXQ_MMn8lIQBF0dnXjGq@mail.gmail.com>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
>I was close to Hero Tange, the owner of the tubing company. The Champion
>tubes were made with 4130 steel and the finish was great. When I was
>building frames I used Columbus and Reynolds tubing, mostly I liked the
>decals better than Tange's! I would say the best reason to use Tange in the
>period you are talking about here is that the shipments were reliable. This
>was not the case for Columbus especially. But the 3 brands all made great
>tubing, nothing much different in tensile strength. I think the forks and
>chain stays on the Columbus was done very nicely. When Reynolds came out
>with 753 (basically heat treated 531), I build race frames with this and
>really liked it. In order to buy this tubing the builder had to submit a
>frame to meet the very stringent criteria required. I mentioned to Hero
>Tange that he should look into coming up with something compete with 753 and
>gave him a set. Next time I went to Japan he had come up with Prestige
>tubing. In my opinion that was the best steel tubing of the time, although
>slightly out the CR period.
>
>Anyway, a lot of famous builders don't put tubing decals on. This allows
>tube mixing and keeps anti Japanese feelings from detracting from the
>mystic, if in fact Tange was used in the build.
>
>Jim Merz
>Big Sur CA
>
>
>On Fri, Jun 11, 2010 at 7:58 AM, jim abt <jamesabt@charter.net> wrote:
>
>> Hi: I am not sure what the down play of Tange and Champion are (I do not
>> think that Freek Faro is doing that he is simply mentioning that why someone
>> in Europe would be using Japan steel chromoly, I am sure, but I have been
>> meaning to bring up the point for some time). Please someone explain. I have
>> had my hands on a share of European bikes and the Reynolds 531's and also
>> the afore mentioned Japanese bikes and the paint jobs and the finish on the
>> Tange steel frames were left far superior and seemed to hold their own over
>> time in comparison to any other. So, I don't get it. I am thinking that this
>> Plum presented here is a fine example. Thank you for taking such great care
>> of a wonderful two wheel machine. She is beautiful!
>>
>> Jim Abt
>> Wausau, Wi. USA
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 3
>Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2010 08:53:46 -0700
>From: Kurt Sperry <haxixe@gmail.com>
>Subject: Re: [CR] Ebay Outing: 53cm Zeus/Otero, Spence-Wolff, Maxicar,
> 58T TA
>Cc: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
>Message-ID:
> <AANLkTimRK2fdP3M7JrC64J2knki8xWkEJZVF9VkbbPGl@mail.gmail.com>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
>Very cool frame but why mount a long cage modded RD on a TT bike? I
>don't get it.
>
>Kurt Sperry
>Bellingham, Washington
>USA
>
>On Thu, Jun 10, 2010 at 10:57 PM, donald gillies <gillies@ece.ubc.ca> wrote:
>> http://ebay.com/
>>
>> The super Raven 800 must be a Timetrial bike it only has one braze-on
>> downtube boss and is set up with mostly NOS parts, including a 58T TA
>> chainring. ?Check out the spanish brazing on this bike, the
>> embellishments are splendid !!! ?For reference by posterity, they are:
>>
>> ?- a bicycle engraved in the bottom bracket
>> ?- a fork tang down the side of the fork that's 3-dimensional
>> ?- nervex non-pro (constructeur, maybe ref. 158?) lugs.
>> ?- an oval ellipsoid chainstay stiffener, mounted vertically
>> ?- other indescribable stuff (rear bridge)
>>
>> - Don Gillies
>> San Diego, CA, USA
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 4
>Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2010 08:57:03 -0700
>From: "Charles Andrews" <chasds@mindspring.com>
>Subject: Re: [CR] con denti pedali
>To: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
>Message-ID: <CB014586C26441CB90B3971EADDCA9A1@DELL>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
>Matthew wrote, in part:
>
>> Am I alone in this level obsessiveness over a single component are can any
>> of you commiserate? Are you haunted by "the one that got away"? One part
>> shy of completing a build? Do you lose sleep over anything on your wish
>> list? Or am I finally losing it entirely?
>>
>> Matthew Bowne
>> Senza Denti in
>> Brooklyn, NYC
>
>
>_________
>
>I mentioned to Matthew and now to the list, that "con denti" pedals seem to me to be one of those parts that is rapidly entering the realm of "I'd never sell those." Sure, you see them on bikes now and then, esp. someplace like the Cirque, but how often do you see them for sale, really? not all that often. And I'd guess you'll see them less and less often, because for most of us, a pair of con dentis is one of those things you'd just never sell. they don't take up much room. There's always something else less rare to sell...kinda like first generation Campagnolo alloy cranks. Who would sell a set of these now, if you had one? No-one I know would sell one.
>
>I may be exaggerating slightly for effect, but this phenomenon is real. What super-rare part have you had for years about which you say "I should sell that" but you never do? We all have them. And that's how the price goes up on them. No-one wants to sell. Except once in awhile.
>
>Charles Andrews
>Los Angeles
>
>
>"Somebody has to be tireless...
>or the fast buck operators would
>asphalt the entire coast, fill every
>bay and slay every living thing
>incapable of carrying a wallet."
>
>--John D. MacDonald
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 5
>Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2010 12:01:03 -0400
>From: loudeeter@aol.com
>Subject: Re: [CR] Ebay Outing: 53cm Zeus/Otero, Spence-Wolff, Maxicar,
> 58T TA
>To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
>Message-ID: <8CCD7966D9BDF30-1E44-10ECB@webmail-d093.sysops.aol.com>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
>Interesting modification to that derailleur to get that long cage too. My guess is that the owner had a wide range freewheel on the back to offset that huge chainring, but put a different set of wheels on it to sell it. No tires would support that conclusion as well. Lou Deeter, Orlando FL USA
>
>
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Kurt Sperry <haxixe@gmail.com>
>Cc: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
>Sent: Fri, Jun 11, 2010 11:53 am
>Subject: Re: [CR] Ebay Outing: 53cm Zeus/Otero, Spence-Wolff, Maxicar, 58T TA
>
>
>Very cool frame but why mount a long cage modded RD on a TT bike? I
>don't get it.
>
>Kurt Sperry
>Bellingham, Washington
>USA
>
>On Thu, Jun 10, 2010 at 10:57 PM, donald gillies <gillies@ece.ubc.ca> wrote:
>> http://ebay.com/
>>
>> The super Raven 800 must be a Timetrial bike it only has one braze-on
>> downtube boss and is set up with mostly NOS parts, including a 58T TA
>> chainring. Check out the spanish brazing on this bike, the
>> embellishments are splendid !!! For reference by posterity, they are:
>>
>> - a bicycle engraved in the bottom bracket
>> - a fork tang down the side of the fork that's 3-dimensional
>> - nervex non-pro (constructeur, maybe ref. 158?) lugs.
>> - an oval ellipsoid chainstay stiffener, mounted vertically
>> - other indescribable stuff (rear bridge)
>>
>> - Don Gillies
>> San Diego, CA, USA
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>_______________________________________________
>
>
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 6
>Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2010 12:11:08 -0400
>From: Tom Martin <tom@voimports.com>
>Subject: [CR] Cottered crank advice
>To: Classic Rendezvous <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
>Message-ID:
> <AANLkTikaxWRm_O9-n6pSfD7YPJgSFB8ImsMogPeUF6hg@mail.gmail.com>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
>At the Cirque swap, I picked up a Gitane Mixte. It was in good shape and
>looked like it just needed a good washing, bearings adjusted, and the
>cotters tightened or replaced, etc.
>I have a bit of experience with cottered cranks, mostly British Raleighs and
>janky American/ Taiwanese/ Japanese bikes and thought this would be a quick
>repair/rehab, and maybe add fenders and a rack for a nice ride for DC
>excursions. I was hoping I could get it done for the upcoming DC Seersucker
>Social, but that's not gonna happen....
>
>I removed the cotters, cleaned the spindle and crank cotter holes. The
>cotters look new. I re-installed the original cotters, as I didn't have any
>new cotters in the correct dia.They just slide right through. They don't
>wedge the crank arms to the BB spindle. The original cotters, as far as I
>can tell are 9mm. I understand there are 2 different 9mm French style
>cotters- Peugeot, and 'everything else'. What are the differences between
>the 2? The flat angle? the length of the cotter?? Bikesmith Designs and
>Harris both list 'French' cotters but don;t specify whether it's Peugeot or
>the other type. Although it's only 3-6 bucks for new pins, I'm loathe to
>spend that, plus shipping only to have the same problem.I'm also not sure
>whether the cotters are the issue. Could it be the crankarm/ BB spindle
>interface- are all cottered BB spindles the same, with the only difference
>being the crank cotter bore?
>
>What do you all think I should do?
>
>
>
>Tom Martin
>Washington DC
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 7
>Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2010 09:36:31 -0700 (PDT)
>From: "Paul A. Grens" <pgrens@yahoo.com>
>Subject: [CR] 64cm Roy Thame on Chicago Craigslist
>To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
>Message-ID: <513394.80925.qm@web30005.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
>Howdy,
>
>There is a nice, tall complete 1984 Roy Thame with Campy NR on Chicago Craigslist.
>
>http://chicago.craigslist.org/chc/bik/1784702299.html
>
>I know the seller (who is selling it for a friend of his) but I have not seen the bike in person.
>
>Cheers,
>
>Paul Grens
>Chicago, Illinois, U.S.A.
>
>
>
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 8
>Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2010 10:06:52 -0700 (PDT)
>From: Stephen Reker <stevereker@yahoo.com>
>Subject: [CR] Jack Taylor - Forks ? ?
>To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
>Message-ID: <382435.5704.qm@web51404.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
>- Did Jack Taylor use the same Fork & rear wheel spacing for both 27'' & 650 Wheels with the wide Lefol fenders.
> The only defferance was the spacing for Mafac stems ?
> does anyone have the answer ?
>
> Thanks - Steve
>
>
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 9
>Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2010 17:45:19 GMT
>From: "Jerry Jeter & Sandy Wallace" <walljet01@netzero.com>
>Subject: [CR] Dancelli Road Bike
>To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
>Message-ID: <20100611.124519.23860.0@webmail02.dca.untd.com>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252
>
>I plan to sell a Dancelli bike on ebay and I need some back ground info on this bike. They were never sold in the US, but I have seen reference to them in Germany and Italy. I would love to know who built these bikes and their quality. If any of our European members are familiar with the bike and know something about them, please contact me. Thanks
>Jerry Jeter, Wildwood, MO USA
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 10
>Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2010 11:11:48 -0700 (PDT)
>From: Kevin Kruger <ktk1_7_0_2_8@yahoo.com>
>Subject: [CR] Joel Dressner, please contact me
>To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
>Message-ID: <437069.32894.qm@web31406.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
>Would Joel Dressner please contact me offlist.
>
>Regards,
>Kevin Kruger - Grantville, PA USA
>
>
>
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 11
>Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2010 19:41:51 +0100
>From: Derek Athey <devondirect@googlemail.com>
>Subject: Re: [CR] Jack Taylor - Forks ? ?
>To: Stephen Reker <stevereker@yahoo.com>, Rendezvous Classic
> <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
>Message-ID:
> <AANLkTinCuoPTmX7kyalyjt_bfyyvYiwBglgbpqSITWsu@mail.gmail.com>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
>Hi Steve
>
>It depends on what the original customer ordered in terms of mudguards and
>wheels. If they ordered 650 wheels Norman would have definately used a
>tandem sized fork crown and set the front dropouts to chosen hubs. If they
>preferred 27" then a standard crown could have been used (just) although he
>usually also used a tandem crown on 27's, and 100mm dropouts used for front
>forks. Rear clearance also on number of gears required etc.
>
>Hope this helps. It depends on what clearance you have on the frame really.
>Trial and error is the order of the day. Norman Taylor always built to
>customer spec.
>
>Regards
>Derek Athey
>Honiton, Devon UK
>
>On Fri, Jun 11, 2010 at 6:06 PM, Stephen Reker <stevereker@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> - Did Jack Taylor use the same Fork & rear wheel spacing for both 27'' &
>> 650 Wheels with the wide Lefol fenders.
>> The only defferance was the spacing for Mafac stems ?
>> does anyone have the answer ?
>>
>> Thanks - Steve
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 12
>Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2010 11:55:34 -0700
>From: verktyg <verktyg@aol.com>
>Subject: Re: [CR] Cottered crank advice
>To: Tom Martin <tom@voimports.com>, Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
>Message-ID: <4C1286A6.80801@aol.com>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
>
>
>Tom,
>
>The early version Peugeot cotters had a flat the length on the 9mm
>diameter. Later ones were standard French, for the most part.
>
>If your existing cotters are the old style Peugeots then you're
>"threaded" until you get some new 9mm French cotters.
>
>BTW, were the original cotters tight when you removed them?
>
>Chas. Colerich
>Oakland, CA USA
>
>
>Tom Martin wrote:
>> At the Cirque swap, I picked up a Gitane Mixte. It was in good shape and
>> looked like it just needed a good washing, bearings adjusted, and the
>> cotters tightened or replaced, etc.
>> I have a bit of experience with cottered cranks, mostly British Raleighs and
>> janky American/ Taiwanese/ Japanese bikes and thought this would be a quick
>> repair/rehab, and maybe add fenders and a rack for a nice ride for DC
>> excursions. I was hoping I could get it done for the upcoming DC Seersucker
>> Social, but that's not gonna happen....
>>
>> I removed the cotters, cleaned the spindle and crank cotter holes. The
>> cotters look new. I re-installed the original cotters, as I didn't have any
>> new cotters in the correct dia.They just slide right through. They don't
>> wedge the crank arms to the BB spindle. The original cotters, as far as I
>> can tell are 9mm. I understand there are 2 different 9mm French style
>> cotters- Peugeot, and 'everything else'. What are the differences between
>> the 2? The flat angle? the length of the cotter?? Bikesmith Designs and
>> Harris both list 'French' cotters but don;t specify whether it's Peugeot or
>> the other type. Although it's only 3-6 bucks for new pins, I'm loathe to
>> spend that, plus shipping only to have the same problem.I'm also not sure
>> whether the cotters are the issue. Could it be the crankarm/ BB spindle
>> interface- are all cottered BB spindles the same, with the only difference
>> being the crank cotter bore?
>>
>> What do you all think I should do?
>>
>> Tom Martin
>> Washington DC
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>_______________________________________________
>
>
>End of Classicrendezvous Digest, Vol 90, Issue 40
>*************************************************