Greg wrote: << I'm the guy who mentioned Tretubi, in my original post. I was unaware that it was an indication of just three tubes of something. I have a Columbus Tretubi frame, and just checked it, and there is no indication which tubes are used, just says Tretubi. I always assumed these were three main tubes SL and some degree of downgrade on the stays and fork. >>
I am fairly certain that "TreTubi" originally (1970s) indicated specifically SL/SP main tubes, then later other variations crept in...
Dale Brown Greensboro, North Carolina USA
-----Original Message----- From: gear@xmission.com To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Sent: Fri, Jan 22, 2010 1:01 pm Subject: Re: [CR] Columbus Aelle v. SL
Hi All,
This is one of the reasons I like this list. My initial post was in regards to sellers recently describing Aelle as a top level tubeset. I was secure in my memory and knowledge of tubesets that it was considered entry level in its day, but was puzzled by what seems like quite a few Aelle frames described as top tier or even professional tier, and actually selling as such. Seems I recall a fairly recent Ciocc that sold well above what I would have expected. And the conversation turned into an informative discussion on tubesets, and the impressions of those sets by several very knowledgeable folks who hang out here. Sweet! And I should say that I offer my opinions based on quality, well made frames, knowing that I could not build a frame from the best tubeset available that would rival in any way a gas pipe frame made by one of our resident framebuilders. And I know that's a key factor as this discussion progresses. So, my query was whether (we) as a community are beginning to 'up' the traditional lower level frames, perhaps because the upper level ones are becoming too pricey or hard to find for many of us. A similar occurrence can be found in cars, where a certain model or make catches fire and prices soar, therefore bringing the 'next best thing' up as well. So perhaps Aelle is becoming that next best thing in the eyes of buyers and sellers, I wondered. I recall that Mondonico comparo by Alan, and found it interesting. Mike Kone mentioned Columbus EL non-oversized tubing, and after Alan's comparison, I rode several frames of different tubing on my 15-20 mile commute to my shop. Frames included my own on-topic bikes as well as newer high tech frames built with Excell, Reynolds and Columbus, everything from an early 70s Pogliaghi to a then current LeMond 853. My own preference was the non-os EL frame, and I had a custom built from that set based on what I felt in my own rides. Subjective, I know. Back to on-topic frames, in the vein of some folks being able to tell a difference in tubesets, I have always loved 531 in it's lighter forms, as well as 753. My irrational affinity for frames coming from Italy has kept me on Columbus frames moreso, but I can feel a difference in road feel between, say 531R and Columbus SL frames. Maybe it's just me!, but the Reynolds set seems to soak up the road vibes with alacrity. I ride a 53-55, and have a smooth riding style, and tend to dislike overly stiff frames. And definitely believe in different strokes for different folks and all. But at least I think I know that I believe I can feel a difference! And I'm the guy who mentioned Tretubi, in my original post. I was unaware that it was an indication of just three tubes of something. I have a Columbus Tretubi frame, and just checked it, and there is no indication which tubes are used, just says Tretubi. I always assumed these were three main tubes SL and some degree of downgrade on the stays and fork. As for Aelle and Cromor, I've had cross bikes made with each that I loved, and MTB's with both, ditto. I think that is their natural domain, and they are very good there. Road frames I've ridden that were constructed of either have felt a little heavy and lacking in response as compared to the lighter frames I was comparing from the same era.
My overpriced two-cents!
Greg Overton learning more here every day, near Denver, Colorado
Quoting Jerome & Elizabeth Moos <jerrymoos@sbcglobal.net>:
> I have a couple of Aelle bikes, including a junior Romic I built up > for my daughter when she was about 12. They seem to ride quite > nicely. As pointed out in the Bicycle Guide test, the tubeset used > is often highly overrated. I think one reason to buy a bike with a > more expensive tubeset is that one expects more care to have been > taken in building it. But many Italian builders seem to have a > different view of things. I've frequently been amazed by the number > of VERY nice Italian frames built with Aelle, and the extent of > detailing lavished on these frames. I can't imagine any American > builder going to that much trouble with an Aelle frame. The > attitude here would be that if one is going to put the labor into a > handbuilt frame, spend a few more dollars for a more prestigeous > tubeset, so as to be able to charge a higher price. But it seems > that in Italy or maybe other parts of Europe where Italian frames > are widely sold, there is/was a market for
> nicely finished racing frames made of less expensive tubesets to > reduce cost. I must say I don't think such a market existed in the > US in the days when lugged steel frames were still the norm. It > seems American obsessed over the tubing sticker to an extent Italian > buyers did not. An American company offering complete bikes would > have been more likely to economize on components or adopt simlpler > cheaper build methods to meet a price point than to use a less > prestigeous tubeset.
>
> BTW, one of the past posts seemed to list TreTubi as a Columbus > tubeset, but TreTubi of course simply means 3 tubes, i.e. main tubes > of the specified tubing, like the "3 Tubes" decal on French frames > with 531 main tubes. So Aelle and TreTubi are not mutually > exclusive, and indeed there are quite a few Aelle TreTubi frames > around with decals stating exactly that. I think perhaps Aelle was > available in butted as well as straight gauge tubes, but I'm not > sure about that.
>
> Regards,
>
> Jerry Moos
> Big Spring, Texas, USA
>
> --- On Fri, 1/22/10, jeff holt <jefflaw@msn.com> wrote:
>
>> From: jeff holt <jefflaw@msn.com>
>> Subject: Re: [CR] Columbus Aelle v. SL
>> To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
>> Date: Friday, January 22, 2010, 8:32 AM
>>
>> I own 2 Columbus Aelle frames.
>> One is a Paletti (circa early 80's) which I rode as my
>> lousy weather training bike. Obviously it was a bit heavier
>> then my SL bikes, but was a relatively nice rider
>> nonetheless. I'm actually debating whether to re-build this
>> or try & pick-up an SL frame from the 70's to re-build
>> with my spare Campy grouppo.
>> My other Aelle frame is a Saronni (circa late 80's).
>> Interestingly, the 3 main tubes are "crimped" (for lack of a
>> better word...I can't remember what the correct name of this
>> was called) like a corrugated box, which if I recall was
>> supposed to add stiffness. This frame I never liked. Felt
>> heavy & dead. Frame has an interesting red fading to
>> silver chrome finish.
>> Jeff Holt
>> West Deptford, NJ
>> USA