Re: [CR] A few more pics of my Cinelli, and riding impressions

(Example: Framebuilding:Brazing Technique)

Date: Sun, 17 Jan 2010 20:44:53 -0500
From: "Harvey Sachs" <hmsachs@verizon.net>
To: <euromeccanicany@yahoo.com>, Classic Rendezvous <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
Subject: Re: [CR] A few more pics of my Cinelli, and riding impressions


A beautiful restoration, Mike, and to be worn with pride. My patina-ed Cinelli SC will be embarassed to be seen in her company if you bring her to Cirque. :-)

But, as much as I would like to believe that your butt has the sensitivity of the proverbial princess who felt the pea through a stack of mattresses, and much as your impressions align with popular wisdom, people smarter than I don't think that wheels work that way.

1) 4x = 4x. High or small flange: difference in spoke length is ~1 mm, less than difference between left and right in the back. If you look at the wheels, you'll notes that a perpendicular to the spoke with either 4x spoking pretty much goes through the center of the hub. And I don't think that flange flex or twist is an issue.

2) There two variables that can make a difference. Tire pressure is huge. According to Papadopoulos, the whole range from radial to 4x spoling has differences comparable to a few psi. If I remember correctly. Which maybe translates into tire width or even sidewall stiffness. I'm not an expert on these things. The other variable that I'd bet matters a lot is spoke tension. What happens if you back off a turn on every spoke on those HF wheels (but keep the truth on them)?

Now I realize that first hand butt-truth feels much more real than second hand theory..., but it would be really interesting if you just had a spoke tension gauge. Which I've never owned, or course.

If I recall correctly, Jim Pap. treated wheels pretty well in Wilson's most recent Cycling Science.

Best! harvey sachs mcLean va

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Mike Shiffer wrote: I added a few more photos of the finished product: http://www.flickr.com/photos/28164070@N04/sets/72157623030836354/

Finally, after cold & precipitation & salt kept me from taking this lovely bike outdoors for many weeks, I got to really ride it yesterday. I sure feel dumb. The frame is marvellous: rock solid & precise. The wheels I built, however, are way too stiff! N.R. high flange hubs, three crossed laced with modestly priced Hutchinson tubulars. I figured the additional stiffness would help, since the Cinelli is a little longer & taller than my regular rides. Not too swift! Every lump in the pavement darn near rattled my teeth out. Came home, swapped them for a pair of small flange, four crossed laced wheels with comparable tires & rims and went out again, not expecting much. What a difference! Way more comfortable, with no loss of precision or change of steering feel. After an hour, my butt reminded me why I swapped the Unicanitor for an Avocet on my Olympia many years ago. It sure is pretty, and graceful, and I don't slip around on its classy suede, but boy, it doesn't cosset my bony behind! Feels kind of like this: http://www.flickr.com/photos/28164070@N04/sets/72157623148031560/

So, you guys who know Cinellis & wheels: will it help much to go to 4 crossed on the high flange hubs, or are small flange hubs the way to go? The HF wheels are beyond beautiful, but no fun to ride.