Great post, Ted. Regarding your comment: "The Contis feel stiffer and somewhat faster to me, the Vittorias more comfortable and not quite so secure in the turns", this may very well be due to the fact that Conti tubulars use a butyl tube, whereas most high-end Vittoria tubulars use a latex tube. A butyl tube gives a much firmer/stiffer ride and, in my opinion, doesn't really give the nice, plush comfy ride that makes tubular tires so wonderful when riding on the road. However, on the track, I always thought that a butyl tubed Conti was wonderful, as that firmer/stiffer ride is really beneficial and lets a rider feel everything.
Most high-end models in a tubular manufacturer's line will use latex tubes, whereas the lower priced models will use butyl tubes. The only exception to this, to my knowledge, is that Conti uses butyl tubes throughout their tubular range. It's a personal preference, as where Ted prefers the Conti feel for the road, I like Veloflex for the road. Dugast are nice also, but can be pretty pricey. For the track, I love the Conti feel. Either way, keep riding.
Dave Patrick
Chelsea, Michigan USA
From: Ted Ernst <ternst1@cox.net> Subject: Re: [CR] Nylon tubulars To: "verktyg" <verktyg@aol.com>, classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Date: Monday, May 31, 2010, 2:01 AM
Our South Bay Wheelmen club had a great outing this morning. About 25 folks out for our monthly Time Trial. Winning time was 22:11 On our posts re: the tire ride, a number of Q's came in so thought I would share the oulde gossip. The boards are usually more slippery because of the finish and degree of banking. A lot of this came about with the longer events so that comfort and safety were considered. The wood is "softer" or maybe gives a wee bit more so to balance out the response a cotton tire was somewhat stiffer than a silk and so would not "flex" as much under the side force and let riders feel more positive in 6-day and/or team races. The silk was a little more elastic in ride and pressure so was better on cement tracks or highway and then it absorbed some of the shock and gave better bump smoothing. You could play with tire pressure, but then you may lose the overall performance desired. This was a general rule and for other kind of races than madisons, it wasn't a factor. With all the new technology the last 20+ years, these rubber compounds have given us all the advantage for wet/dry weather and then for various surfaces. The reason Contis were so popular for the boards was if understood it correctly was that the Contis used long fiber Edgyptian cottton that "felt" and rode more like silk and yet had the cotton touch wanted for the boards. Maybe it also was stronger and held better/more pressure. I've not succumbed to clinchers yet, and I use either Vittoria CG/CX or Conti 250 sprints. The Contis feel stiffer and somewhat faster to me, the Vittorias more comfortable and not quite so secure in the turns. Of course, at 78 years and all of 15 MPH what the hell do I know? Actually I try to keep my downhill ay about 40 now, the 50/60 just feels too fast. I test ride clinchers when I'm at shop on some of the repair bikes, and we have a few turny/curvy/upsie/downsie streets around for good handling critique. I just do NOT like the clincher feel. Period! Also, I can certainly attest to the different rubber compounds in use today, having fallen on my ass a few times when riding on wet pavement or moist painted lines in the street, whether from rain, watering, or any kind of run off. So it's best to check the maker's specs and surface condition design when buying tires. At the ADT velodrome, Roger Young the track manager and coach, always checks the rider's tires to check the strips foe slipperyness. The donated Felt track rental bikes all have tires that have nice rubber compound that isn't slippery and makes it possible to go about 15 to 18 mph in the turns without sliding down. The rubber strips when delivered from the factories have often had a shiny possibly mold coat sheen to them. Thats why the trainers always take some sandpaper/emery cloth and with a fine grit ruff up the surface sheen and then wipe off the dust with a clean rag and rubbing alcohol so the tire has a better grip in the 45degree turns so many of the board tracks have. Our tracks that were 10/12 laps to a mile had 50/55 degree banking so you better get the feel soon or else! Have you ever noticed how a real track tire had a consistent thickness rubber strip and a road tire has a tapered rubber strip? Let's see how many of you know why. I've had about two full years on the Vittoria Green side black center all weather strip tires and before that the same on Conti 250's. Usually different tires get different results for riders. I may get two years out of mine and the next rider will get two months, but get two years out of a Wolber or Challenge. Tip of the day: When you find a tire that likes you stick with it for a while until the karma changes. Like when buying a pooch or putty tat, stand there and they will find you. When that tire rubber strip(per) finds you, go for it! There is still nothin' like a beautiful red strip Clement silk pumped to proper pressure when it sings to to you while jammin' down the highway. When you get in that zooming zone, Nirvana is not far away. I wasn't gonna tell you all this neat stuff, but that slave driving Listmeister said because he's paying me the big bucks I better challenge you to challenge me by putting out some stuff with real meat to get up to tempo. Enuf striping, time to start stripping. Ted Ernst Palos Verdes Estates CA USA ----- Original Message ----- From: "verktyg" <verktyg@aol.com> To: "Ted Ernst" <ternst1@cox.net>; <Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Sent: Saturday, May 29, 2010 1:18 PM Subject: Re: [CR] Nylon tubulars
> Ted,
>
> My impression of those tires was that they hand rather pinkish sidewalls
> that appeared to have been vulcanized as opposed to the honey colored
> latex sidewalls on the European cotton and silk tires. They also felt a
> little stiffer to the touch than the natural fiber tires.
>
> Also the treads had an "oily" feel that seemed to be designed more for
> long life than traction. They appeared to be made of some vulcanized
> synthetic rubber and maybe that was the cause of poor wet traction.
>
> We never had that much rain in New Mexico so wet traction was rarely a
> problem! ;-)
>
> Chas. Colerich
> Oakland, CA USA
>
> Ted Ernst wrote:
>> The sidewall or casing shouldn't make the tire slip.
>> I thought the "protector" or in America the strip composition is what
>> "tracts" on the pave for the adhesion.
>> Silk, Cotton, Nylon, etc. of the casing isn't what touches the road or am
>> I missing something?
>> Ted Ernst
>> Palos Verdes Estates
>> CA USA
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andrew R Stewart"
>>> Earle- I'll second that. One of my still remembered riding "moments" was
>>> crossing a steel deck bridge (that I routinely crossed on my commute to
>>> work) on my fairly new Raleigh Nylon tubies ( 270gm ). There was a light
>>> rain in the morning and I had a rather elastic moment riding over the
>>> bridge. After 30+ years it still is in my mind. I didn't use them much
>>> longer.
>>>
>>> Subject: [CR] Nylon tubulars
>>>
>>>> Nicely made, light, and absolutely deadly on wet roads. I went down
>>>> twice on
>>>> them, once on an inch-wide stream of water at the apex of a turn.
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>> Earle Young
>>>> Madison, Wisc.