Just a note of interest, assuming accurate colour reproduction in the photo/ monitor, my Mercier is much 'pinker' than this one.
Leon
On Fri, Jun 25, 2010 at 6:19 PM, Peter Rogers <pjrogers@rogers.com> wrote:
> Hi Hugh,
> While we are on the subject of brazed-on fittings, I just posted a photo
> showing how the derailleur cables are dealt with on my Mercier. It follows
> the more modern approach of taking the cable under the BB shell.
> http://petersclassicwheels.blogspot.com/
> Nice detective work in this thread. It goes to show that there is not a lot
> known about this brand and especially the latter years of production.
> All the best,
> Peter
>
> --------------------------------------------------
> From: "Hugh Thornton" <hughwthornton@yahoo.co.uk>
> Sent: Friday, June 25, 2010 12:55 PM
> To: "Classic Rendezvous" <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
> Subject: Re: [CR] Help! Trying to Identify a Mercier Frame
>
>>
>> I am pleased to say that I have exceeded my expectations and uploaded some
>> photographs of my Mercier frame details (in other words I have shirked what
>> I should really have been doing because this was more fun). They are in my
>> flickr account and here is a link that might work:
>>
>> http://www.flickr.com/
>>
>> This is the first time that I have looked at all 3 frames in great detail.
>> I have dated one 1977, which is probably close to correct and another early
>> 1980s which I think is likely from the Vitus dropouts and decals which are
>> more similar to Peter's. The other frame - the one identical to Leon's
>> mystery frame I have dated 1977 to 1981. I picked 1977 because that is the
>> date of the derailleur it came with and I have slightly arbitrarily picked
>> 1981 as the upper limit because it has some features in common with the
>> early 1980s frame and also with Perin's 1980 team bike, although it is
>> identical to neither.
>>
>> I noticed another thing in common with Leon's frame, mine and Perin's in
>> that they have braze-ons for Campagnolo gear levers as well as bottom
>> bracket cable guides, whereas my 1977 frame only has braze-ons for rear gear
>> cable stop and a gear lever stop under the downtube. The same goes for the
>> rear brake bridge and bottle cage attachments which I haven't yet seen on a
>> frame earlier than 1980 - but good pictures are hard to come by.
>>
>> If I were to be totally objective, I would have to say that I think these
>> mystery frames are 1980-81 whcih I find a bit diappointing because I had
>> looked forward to building mine up with 1977 first generation Super Record,
>> having had the rear gear come with the bike. Another thing, my frame has an
>> English-threaded steerer but so much work has been done on the frame that I
>> assumed that the steerer had been changed, especially since my "early 1980s"
>> frame has a French-threaded steerer, but then on the other hand it still has
>> a wooden plug in place. LEON - can you determing what threading your
>> steerer has?
>>
>> Here is a link to an earlier Mercier, showing the solid color and earlier
>> headbadge that Peter referred to - pre Service Des Courses:
>>
>> http://velosvintage.over-blog.com/
>>
>> I think it was from this blog that I got the pictures of Perin's bike, but
>> the blogger changed blog provider and some things have not been posted back
>> on this blog.
>>
>> Hugh Thornton
>> Cheshire, England
>>
>> --- On Fri, 25/6/10, Peter Rogers <pjrogers@rogers.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> From: Peter Rogers <pjrogers@rogers.com>
>> Subject: Re: [CR] Help! Trying to Identify a Mercier Frame
>> To: "Hugh Thornton" <hughwthornton@yahoo.co.uk>
>> Cc: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
>> Date: Friday, 25 June, 2010, 15:30
>>
>>
>> Hi Hugh,
>> I agree that Mercier is a much ignored, yet important frame builder.
>> I have always been a fan and was lucky enough to see Poulidor racing at
>> Herne Hill when he was with the GAN Mercier team.
>> Look forward to seeing some pictures.
>> If anyone knows if there are any Mercier brochure scans on the net, I'd
>> like to see them!
>> All the best,
>> Peter Rogers
>>
>> Barrie, Ontario, Canada
>>
>>
>>
>> --------------------------------------------------
>> From: "Hugh Thornton" <hughwthornton@yahoo.co.uk>
>> Sent: Friday, June 25, 2010 10:01 AM
>> To: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
>> Subject: Re: [CR] Help! Trying to Identify a Mercier Frame
>>
>>> Hi Peter,
>>>
>>> Thanks for the photos and other information. Your seat stay tops are
>>> different again, not like the flat caps of old nor the scooped out ones like
>>> Leon's and mine.
>>>
>>> Metallic pink seems to have been on some Merciers since 1975 at least.
>>> Earlier ones are mostly solid colors. If Leon's and mine are 1977 or later,
>>> metallic paint would be correct. The shade of pink seems to vary a lot in
>>> photographs: I don't know how much in real life.
>>>
>>> The earliest I have seen the shield-shaped Services Des Courses badge on
>>> the front of a Mercier is 1975 and it bore the number 00088, close to the
>>> start of the sequence. My possibly 1997 frame has 09517. I believe you are
>>> right that earlier frames also had foil badges stamped with the number, but
>>> I think the design was dfifferent. Norris gives the impression that
>>> Services Des Course is a separate department for the build of high end
>>> frames - like Bianchi's Reparto Corse I presume. If it is a separate
>>> department, maybe it started in 1975 (wild guess). Does anybody know of an
>>> earlier reference than the 1975 headbadge above?
>>>
>>> Sorry if this is all getting a bit confusing. I shall try to get some
>>> pictures up on flickr to clarify but it won't be before sometime next week.
>>> Sorry also if this thread is getting too much for some - if it is, just
>>> delete without reading. Merciers do not get much of a mention on classic
>>> rendezvous, but as Norris says, they were a very significant company and
>>> they made some great bikes and they supported top level racing for years and
>>> years. They really did deserve to win the Tour as payback for everything
>>> they put into the sport.
>>>
>>> Hugh Thornton
>>> Cheshire, England
>>>
>>> --- On Fri, 25/6/10, Peter Rogers <pjrogers@rogers.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> From: Peter Rogers <pjrogers@rogers.com>
>>> Subject: Re: [CR] Help! Trying to Identify a Mercier Frame
>>> To: "Hugh Thornton" <hughwthornton@yahoo.co.uk>,
>>> classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
>>> Date: Friday, 25 June, 2010, 14:18
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi Hugh,
>>> What is interesting about Leon's frame is the paint underneath the top
>>> coat that is on it now.
>>> It seems to be the same metallic pink as the later frame that I have.
>>> I have seen a lot of solid pink Mercier frames from the 70's, but I
>>> cannot remember seeing any metallic pink ones.
>>> Any thoughts on this?
>>> As far as I remember, the 1972 Mercier Professional frame had a foil head
>>> badge, with the frame number stamped into it. So, they were using this style
>>> since the early 70's, it seems.
>>> All the best,
>>> Peter Rogers
>>> Barrie, Ontario, Canada
>>>
>>> --------------------------------------------------
>>> From: "Hugh Thornton" <hughwthornton@yahoo.co.uk>
>>> Sent: Friday, June 25, 2010 8:31 AM
>>> To: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
>>> Subject: Re: [CR] Help! Trying to Identify a Mercier Frame
>>>
>>>> Wow! Thanks Norris. How do you unearth all this good stuff?
>>>>
>>>> I have this frame like Leon's (frame A) and I have another 1977 Mercier
>>>> frame (frame B, which is the pattern for the decals) and there is no
>>>> comparison in workmanship. Frame A has beautifully filed lugs, whereas
>>>> frame B - 531 butted, hand made, Service Des Courses, but regular
>>>> Mercier-inscribed seatstay top caps and pointy fork and stay ends - is not
>>>> built with the same degree of hand finishing.
>>>>
>>>> But my later frame (frame C) has the same seatstay top eyes as frame A
>>>> and a similar degree of hand finishing, but the fork and stay ends at the
>>>> dropouts are pointy. It is not very easy to make out the seatstay caps on
>>>> Peter's frame so it might be helpful if he could say whether they are the
>>>> same as Leon's.
>>>>
>>>> At least by 1977, the Services Des Courses headbadge was thin aluminum
>>>> (or thick foil) in a shield shape in which the frame number is impressed. I
>>>> don't know if the badge you refer to was used on other models until the
>>>> crown came along.
>>>>
>>>> The only thing is that Leon's and my frames have a racing number tab and
>>>> a serious racer is more concerned with performance than super hand fnishing,
>>>> so if our frames are the higher quality Prestige range, they would appear to
>>>> be built for "poseurs" rather than "coureurs".
>>>>
>>>> Norris - is there any way you can copy that article you referred to and
>>>> send a copy or stick it on flickr? Would be much appreciated.
>>>>
>>>> Leon - does your frame look like it has beautifully hand-filed lugs too?
>>>>
>>>> Hugh Thornton
>>>> Cheshire, England
>>>>
>>>> --- On Fri, 25/6/10, Norris Lockley <nlockley73@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> From: Norris Lockley <nlockley73@gmail.com>
>>>> Subject: [CR] Help! Trying to Identify a Mercier Frame
>>>> To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
>>>> Date: Friday, 25 June, 2010, 12:56
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I have just managed to unearth a few more snippets of relevant
>>>> information
>>>> about Mercier's range of frames.
>>>>
>>>> In September 1975, the firm announced that all it's frame built of
>>>> Reynolds
>>>> 531 tubing would have engraved top-eyes, and a Cinelli crown, also
>>>> engraved.
>>>>
>>>> In September 1977 the firm announced that it was introducing a whole new
>>>> concept to its top-end-frame - the PRESTIGE range., this being in
>>>> addition
>>>> to the COMPETITION range that included the Tour de France, Tour du
>>>> Monde. Le
>>>> Contre-la-Montre modles. The article making this announcement did not
>>>> state
>>>> whether the PRESTIGE range produced custom models only..but did boast of
>>>> its
>>>> 'exceptionelle facture artisanale' ie the range's exceptional
>>>> craftsmanship., the limiting of the number of frames produced in the
>>>> range
>>>> and the fact that each frame would receive its own individual
>>>> frame-number.
>>>>
>>>> The original Mercier presssed aluminium slightly art-deco headbadge with
>>>> the
>>>> frame-number stamped into the lower panel seems to have been replaced in
>>>> the
>>>> very early 80s by a very stylised 'M' with a coronet above.
>>>>
>>>> The original Mercier headbadges turn up frequently on French eBay on one
>>>> of
>>>> its collectors sites:
>>>>
>>>> http://www.ebay.fr/
>>>>
>>>> Once into that main site enter 'plaques de velo' in the search engine.
>>>>
>>>> Good hunting
>>>>
>>>> Norris Lockley
>>>>
>>>> Settle UK